Full timing & enormous rig troubles

[Brent14133]

Hello All,

I've long followed this forum, and I am hopeful I can get some sage advice from the Grand Design owners' community.

My wife and I have a brand new 2022 337RLS (purchased March 2023), and we've launched on our long anticipate full-timing adventure after 27 years of a stressful and often dangerous law enforcement career. And a few weeks in, we're scared to death we have purchased a lemon.

While camping last week, we noticed the coroplast was bellied downward. I got under the rig, pushed up on the belly, and felt/heard sloshing. It was waste water (a combo of black and gray). I pierced the coroplast to release the mess. A few days of troubleshooting later, I have found that there are two problems. One, the black tank gate valve has a leak, and two, the gray tank gate valve is stuck open. I use an extra gate valve at the dump port, so both tanks were emptying through the leak for many days with the mess ponding on top of the coroplast. If that weren't enough, I saw that all of the waste tank heaters were separated completely from the tanks, likely due to poor adhesive. The abysmal quality control hidden above the coroplast has absolutely shocked us and broken our hearts. Piping and wires lay loose, tangled, and unsupported on the coroplast, without a zip tie or wire chase to be seen. It is mind-blowingly horrible worksmanship down there.

We have hung our full-timing dreams on this gorgeous-on-the-outside rig, and we now know that we have made an enormous mistake. I have improvised drain locations in the coroplast, and we are limping along with buckets to keep waste from dripping onto the ground.

As an added bonus, we had a flat tire recently. The 8-lug wheel Grand Design installed on the rig sure didn't fit very well on the 6-lug axles on a 337. It made for a much longer experience on the side of the road for a simple flat tire. If the company can't even put the correct spare on a rig, you know something is badly wrong with quality control.

I called Grand Design customer service, and they expressed no empathy or concern. They simply said try to get a mobile tech or get it to a dealer. I am concerned that this full-timing experience will start with weeks of our brand new rig in the shop. And when I get it back, I'll be looking to trade it in for another rig from a company that takes more pride in its product and gives more support to its customers.

As you may imagine, our emotions jump between anger and despair. Advice, encouragement, and prayers from the forum are welcome!

Brent

[howson]

Brent14133

Unfortunately your experience is not unique, nor is the quality experience isolated to the GD brand. If there's a "quality" rig constructed in Elkhart it would be news to me. ("Quality" to me is analogous to my 2013 Honda Odyssey, that to date has been a flawless, reliable vehicle for over a decade, The required regular maintenance is done and the car just runs. Not my experience with my RV. I've spent countless hours and not a few dollars modifying, fixing, and maintaining my '19 315RLTS.)

The forum member that comes to mind who also full-times and has had their fair share of remarkable issues over the years is d2reid. I'm sure Dallas will chime in with some sage advice.

Having issues with a house-on-wheels is a fact. One forum member, Rudy, attended a formal RV maintenance school so he's prepared to tackle (almost) every issue. (I followed his lead and attended the same school.) Rudy and his wife Andi also have a 337RLS.

So what to do about your 337RLS' issue?

The fastest option is to find a qualified RV technician to do the work on-site. This could be tough as most parks won't allow this type of work to be done and finding someone willing to do the work could be tough, too. (Not fun fixing the tanks.) The third "gotcha" in this option is that you'll have to pay for what is called the technician's "service fee". Most likely you'll have to pay the full bill upfront, and GD will reimburse the labor and parts directly to you. Be sure to have GD approval before selecting this option.

Unfortunately going back to the original dealer is the best chance of getting this work done. Perhaps a conversation with the service manager is in order? This scenario could require a stay in the local area (you stay in the camper and deal with buckets) until the dealer can accommodate a timely repair.

Finally, there's the roll-up-your-sleeves-and-tackle-it-yourself option. Unfortunately the issue of the park allowing this type of work is still an issue. That will have to be worked out before you start. The learning curve is rough, too (been there, done that). Forum member Popga (unfortunately) has a lot of experience working on a black tank, so they may be able to provide some insight into the amount of work involved.

So hang in there--this too will pass but won't be fun or convenient to get resolved. Patient persistence is required--and believe me patience is not a virtue I was blessed with so I realize the gravity behind what I'm typing.

If we can help, don't hesitate to continue to ask questions.

Howard

[familytruckster4]

howson sums it up well. The only thing I might add is that I would attempt to get the trailer in to the GD service center in Indiana. I think thats your best chance at an acceptable repair. We took delivery of our 337 in July 2020 and have had a few issues that were easily remedied. I do think that manpower issues in Elkhart have diminished the build quality.
Please keep us posted.
Also make sure to check the floor around the shower for water after use, they are notorious for leaks due to not being caulked properly.

Scott

[Popga]

Brent14133

Brent, rotten luck....maybe it is a test from the Almighty to see if you really want to RV? Semi-kidding. I have had several issues that have made me question why I shouldn't just get rid of my trailer and start traveling in nice hotels and B&B's. it would certainly be much cheaper and easier.
But you will be missing the Joy and Independence that people like I, and I suspect you, crave. We're American, after all. (No disrespect to those who just want to be American) We have met some very close friends at RV parks and at a Grand Design rally. Freedom to eat what you want where ever you plant your rig...Hiking, kayaking, e-biking bbq'ing and of course, getting on you knees. Not only to pray, but to fix the next rattin' smattin' thing that broke on your rig. Whether it be "their" fault, or your own. Because I'm American, I can overfill and blow up as many black tanks as I want to. So there.
break my trailer if I want, Ya?. Rant is done.

Since most repair is 2-3 months out before they'll even put you on a schedule, familytruckster4 and howson have the right idea to pressure your dealer. When that doesn't work, your messy situation sounds like quite an easy fix. Even if a tank needs replacing, do not despair. On my last adventure thru Wyoming in the winter, my valves froze and cracked. That was after I cracked my black tank by being American.

A cracked valve is a straight forward fix. And while the coroplast is down, you can get to know the underbelly better and wire tie all those hoses, wires and ducts and make it safer and look good for the next time you have to go down under.

One of the first things to think about is can you afford to wait for it to be fixed? or are you willing to spend some $ and DIY? The tank heaters can probably wait for warranty (But I went ahead and replaced them myself. Mine also were poorly attached)

For smell and piece of mind, consider getting a garden sprayer (pressure pump sprayer). Remove the bolts on both sides of the coroplast near the tanks. Spray it down with a hose, then use the pump sprayer to soak the underbelly with hydrogen peroxide all over the place. It is easier to do that if the coroplast is completely dropped, or cut strategically where you need access. Make sure to where rubber gloves, protect skin and wear Eye pro.

I ended up cutting coroplast frame to frame in a straight line, on both sides of the tank. Then re-attached by screwing a piece of 3/16 x 4" x 6' aluminum frame to frame at the seam and attaching coroplast directly to that. Its the easiest way to get it clean.

If you are anywhere near the PNW (Pacific NW) I'll gladly put on some gloves and nose plugs and help you. Or Some forum members and I can
help walk you thru valve replacement.

Take it easy, brother in blue...

Erik

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Brent,

Welcome to the world of RVs. As frustrating as your situation is, it is no different than most other rigs from any Indiana manufacturer. You do not have a lemon . . . you have a cracked gate valve. The mess of wiring, pipes and ductwork that you see above the coroplast is just like everybody else’s, until an owner takes it upon themselves to make it right.

I am not trying to make light of your situation. You buy a $100K truck and a $100K RV and it does not initially seem unreasonable to expect the same build quality and dealer service from each. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As to the “what to do next” . . . don’t go down the rabbit hole of cutting openings in the coroplast to try and get at these things . . . that never ends well. Flush the tanks really well, drop the coroplast from the front back to the axles and pressure wash everything. (Don’t force too much water into the underside of the floor insulation above the tanks). Once everything is clean and dry, you can start the process of making things right. There are several on this forum who have bin-ther-dun-that . . . we can advise from first hand experience.

Rob

[d2reid]

I am concerned that this full-timing experience will start with weeks of our brand new rig in the shop. And when I get it back, I'll be looking to trade it in for another rig from a company that takes more pride in its product and gives more support to its customers.

As you may imagine, our emotions jump between anger and despair. Advice, encouragement, and prayers from the forum are welcome!

Brent

Welcome to the life of a full timer. It aint all blue skys and roses. But you usually get at least a month or two before something goes wrong, I am sorry for your troubles.

Quality - I think the $500k class A's are much better built than the travel trailers (a general term that includes 5th wheels). But I don't really know as I couild never afford one. I am in my 12th year of fulltiming in 5th wheels. I volunteer at state parks campgrounds, national forests campgrounds and the occasional work camp gig. I talk with a whole lot of people with all kinds of RV's. GD quality is pretty much at par for the industry. Where they have excelled in the last few years is in their customer support department. But that does not do away with the frustration you are feeling now.

Don't feel alone in being shocked that travel quality does not come close to automobile production quality. You have to study the history and intended purpose of the two to really get why RV quality is so low. Doesn't make it right, but understanding makes it easier to live with.

Encouragment - As mentioned I have had my fair share of issues. My first year of fulltming I had a $6000 suspension replacement (SOB - some other brand). I too was questioning whether or not we could sustain our dream retirement travels. There is a decision point, we reached our about 18 months in. We were in Unicoi State Park in GA. Leaves were changing, Octoberfest was on, we were having a blast.

It took about a year to get all the bugs worked out of our first home on wheels, then we had about 5 years of just minor stuff that needed fixing. Around year 7 things started to wear out so we were considering a new RV when GD announced the modified toy hauler with the little garage. We plunged in.

From our first RV experience I new that there would be things that go wrong from day 1. The dealer I bought the Momentum 376TH from that I was a little nutty when I told him to schedule at least 2 days of shop time to fix my new RV that I had not taken delivery on. Ok, I am a little nutty. But, I had been following several GD and other RV forums listening to common problems that were talked about, like recently there have been a rash of waste tank issues. My PDI (Pre-delivery inspection) was pretty extensive. I even had the dealer drop the chloroplast belly to inspect water lines, heating ducts, and of course, the sewer lines.

Before we left the dealership I scheduled repair time at the 11 1/2 month mark for warranty repair. The service manager just shook his as he new I was a nutcase. He asked what do you think will need to fixed under warranty. I told him I didn't know yet, but I would stay in touch. Over the year he and I got along pretty good as I would communicate a warranty issue, I could usually figure some kind of workaround, then when my appointment came we already had parts on hand, warranty repair authorization in place. By preloading these repairs it only took them 3 days to make all the repairs.

The point here is to watch the forums and anticipate problems, knowing the solution before you see the problem.

Some time outs I have endured... a month without a vehicle because I blew an engine in my Chevy. A week when I got hit with a Blue Norther in Amarillo and froze the rig. 2 dogs, cat and unhappy wife in a Motel 6 for a week, not a good time. Recently 2 weeks waiting for a new axle because when the bearings went it tore into the spindle. A bailout of our beloved ski resort gig because the furnace went out, 10 days waiting on parts only to have the mobile tech doing the install bust the plast squirell cage during installation, cold plastic in single digit temps. Wife got pnumonia, not really caused by the furnace but the cold aggravated her condition, bailed to Las Vegas. 6 hours on the side of the raod in Montana waiting for roadside assistance to find a tire replacement... why not put the spare on, hehehe, it had fallen off somewhere and I didn't know it. Slides out of service for a few weeks waiting on parts. Rolling down the road with a busted out window waiting for custom made window to fix it. Lost reservation funds because of minor breakdowns and rescheduling.

Wait a minute, I am supposed to offering encouragement... Yes there are troubles. Pretty true in all things we do in life. Former LEO's you know more than most what kind of troubles are around. But for all my troubles I am sitting in SW Colorado right now, in my 6 year old GD RV about to take a hike in the high alpine mountains after eating some fresh caught trout.

Prayer - I am not an enthusiastic follower of a particular faith, but praying is good. So I pray that you find patience to endure your current problems. I pray that you stick with it long enough get the reward I know is coming; that feeling of peace in finding the beauty of our fine country; that feeling of wonder finding things you have never imagined before; that feeling of communtity that you will find in the RV life.

Safe travels!