Wall movement

[Beachcamper]

I am missing some of those screws and there is separation but no light seepage like yours and no separation at the stairs either. Hmmmm might hand to get longer screws and tighten up that area.

[Beachcamper]

So after watching numerous videos of this frame flex issue I now understand how the wall is attached. Not convinced the lag bolt fix would do much but I will follow the suggestion to add lag bolts if you all think would help mitigate any future problems.

I recently went to get new tires and decided to mark the nightstands and cabinets in the front cap with blue tape to see if there was any movement of furniture, being that there is quite the discussions about missing lag bolts. I am wondering if I actually have a problem or not. Mine is a 2018 303rls and I have checked to see where these bolts would be. I can’t see any on this model as carpet covers the area. Before ripping into this, thought I would get an opinion.


There is no other area in the bedroom that has any movement, other than the the one nightstand as shown below on the wall side that the wrinkles appeared at steps to bedroom. All looks tight and in front baggage hold, propane storage and pin box is fine no movement I can see.

[Cate&Rob]

Beachcamper Hi Vivian,

An interesting discussion that you have resurrected from last Fall about relative movement of cabinetry and walls . . . from before upper deck flex became such a focus. As described in the earlier posts of this thread, many of us have wallpaper bunching at the corners of cabinetry. I have always attributed this to the relative movement of things, as we bounce these houses down the road.

The current focus has to do with upper frame flex which allows the floor and cabinets sitting on this floor to move up and down relative to the walls which are vertical panels that can't move up and down. While most agree that the steel frame is designed to flex and the walls are not intended to move up and down . . . the "fix" is to secure these two things more firmly together . . . . . . .

The upper deck frame rails on our Reflection 303s are covered with plywood (waferboard). A while back, I replaced the carpet in our bedroom. See picture from that project. I never thought to look for the lag screws that everyone is talking about, but they must be under these wooden cover pieces.

The frame flex debate seems (so far) to be about the larger Solitudes and Momentums. No examples of Reflection problems (that I am aware of)

Rob

[Beachcamper]

Cate&Rob no wonder I can’t feel any bolts and magnet does not pick up metal. Thanks for picture that makes it clear to me that I won’t be ripping up the carpet to get to the bolts. Just wondering if the amount of wall movement I have should be of concern.

[Cate&Rob]

Cate&Rob no wonder I can’t feel any bolts and magnet does not pick up metal. Thanks for picture that makes it clear to me that I won’t be ripping up the carpet to get to the bolts. Just wondering if the amount of wall movement I have should be of concern.

Since you only see this evidence of movement on one side of the bed, try lifting that cabinet to see if you can move it by hand. Could be just a loose cabinet, or a loose top on that cabinet.

Rob

[Beachcamper]

Definitely not the cabinet moving it’s solid.

[JBill9694]

I'm wondering if the moderators can look at the framing for the floor and wall meeting, and maybe even the wall and roof meeting, and posts snips of what they find. I'm thinking that the floor supports the walls, and the walls support the roof, and even if there are no visual ties between the three, that the framing (hidden behind the wall boards) are connected.

I'm also thinking that all three components; floor, wall, roof; are designed to flex. That which doesn't flex, breaks. The cabinetry (and stairs) are more rigid than the floors, walls, and roof. Cabinetry located in a corner are likely secured to and moving with one wall, while floating against the other wall. Where the floating side is tight enough to the wall, it will rub on the wallpaper.

[howson]

...I'm thinking that the floor supports the walls, and the walls support the roof...

Exactly right, John. Take a factory tour when you get a chance and you'll see this for yourself. The underside components are installed first (with the frame upside down), then the frame is flipped and the floor is installed. Next is everything in the interior (walls, plumbing fixtures, appliances, etc) are constructed. Then the walls are attached, then the ceiling/roof.

[Cate&Rob]

Definitely not the cabinet moving it’s solid.

The next “observation” that I would make is to watch this cabinet-to-wall interface (the blue tape) as the trailer weight is transferred from the landing gear to the truck.

This comes back to the floor (and cabinet) being attached to the frame which is designed to flex and the side wall being a vertical structure that can’t bend (flex) up and down. The left wall (where you do not see different movement between cabinet and wall) has more ability to flex vertically because of the large opening for the closet slide. Note that there is also an expansion joint cut into the left wall at the lower corner of the slide opening.

Rob

[Beachcamper]

The next “observation” that I would make is to watch this cabinet-to-wall interface (the blue tape) as the trailer weight is transferred from the landing gear to the truck.

This comes back to the floor (and cabinet) being attached to the frame which is designed to flex and the side wall being a vertical structure that can’t bend (flex) up and down. The left wall (where you do not see different movement between cabinet and wall) has more ability to flex vertically because of the large opening for the closet slide. Note that there is also an expansion joint cut into the left wall at the lower corner of the slide opening.

Rob

Cate&Rob when the RV is on the landing gear it goes back to level, the blue tape matches up. When on truck it moves the tape as shown. Blue tape matches up all the time at the wall cabinet. The nightstand is the one that does not.

[Cate&Rob]

Cate&Rob when the RV is on the landing gear it goes back to level, the blue tape matches up. When on truck it moves the tape as shown. Blue tape matches up all the time at the wall cabinet. The nightstand is the one that does not.

Being able to demonstrate this cabinet/nightstand to wall difference associated with changing from landing gear to hitch should be sufficient to start a conversation with Grand Design Customer Service on the topic of frame flex. Please let us know what you learn. This has not been a Reflection issue . . . so far . . .

Rob

[Beachcamper]

Thanks Rob, sent an email and will hopefully get a response. We leave end of month and have a factory appointment in August to paint front cap. Might be able to have them check it by then. Will be monitoring the tape at all locations and hope it does not get worse.

[Beachcamper]

Cate&Rob I went ahead and contacted Christine Holland directly and sent her pics. She had the shop director look at them and he said “it was perfectly normal”. So I will be going to Nova Scotia this summer and feel better about that. I will keep monitoring it and if it gets worse will communicate with GD once more.

[Jlawles2]

So after seeing all of the youtube videos, the other day while in the camper I actively looked for the lag bolts. On the 2021 I can see 2 of the lag bolts toward the rear of the curb side frame cover box.

Would be nice if I could add a few more to eliminate the possibility of flexing. IIRC part of the "fix" for flex was to increase the size of the lag bolts to the next size so that they filled the holes in the frame better to minimize the play (slop) letting the frame wall interface move relative to each other.

[Country Campers]

If the overhang of a fifth wheel is connected to the front portion of the wall with more and/or larger lag bolts making this connection more rigid where will the flex be allowed to take place? An RV needs to flex somewhere or it will tear itself apart. Just my thinking.

Brian