AC temperature control / options

[Sam_Frodo]

Hello, I have read a few posts on here about the Furrion AC control system and some of the problems others have had.
We had our first shakedown camp the past few days and the weather was warm enough to use the AC system.

We went with my in-laws who have a 2023 Imagine XLS 22MLE.

79 and fairly low humidity outside, the camper was in a unshaded spot and gained heat throughout the day as expected. The AC unit performance was, at best, poor. Even with all the blackout shades down, etc. The cabin temperature became uncomfortable.

The thermostat was calling for 68 the temperature reporting would hit 68, turn off the unit, then cycle back on a few hot minutes later. If I left the fan on in high or auto, it sounded like the fan would continue to run but the compressor was cycling on and off, but seemed to run better, still would not make much of a difference. The cabin temperature was never anywhere near 68, I did not have a method with me to measure surface or air temperatures in the camper.

This behavior was mirrored on my in-laws camper, they had a very similar experience.

I read on the forums about the temperature sensor being located inside the inlet plenum and not at the thermostat itself, and that it can be easily influenced by cold air from the supply side being leaked or pulled into the return. Someone on here suggested taking that thermistor and pushing it out through intake dust filter media and that they had seen an improvement in the function of the AC unit by doing this. They also warned that this thermistor would be influenced if using the DUMP setting on the AC rather than the ducting which makes sense.

Relocating this sensor to below the filter media seemed to make a significant improvement our cabin temperature.

I read in this post https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...ts-free-method about relocating the sensor permanently, and while this is a nice solution. I think it’s dumb that this should be necessary to get a reasonable expectation of performance from an AC unit.

In that same post, there was discussion about a new thermostat or that new campers should not have this issue. Mine was built this past winter and the issue remains present so it doesn’t seem like a wholesale change on how these thermostats and AC units determine the cabin temperature was put into action.

Is any one aware of the type of thermistor that Furrion uses?

I wonder if it is just a standard 10K ohm thermistor. While the solution to use the t-stat wire is a good one, it doesn’t look like I have enough free conductors to move it to the thermostat location. Has anyone ordered a replacement thermistor?

Besides the exploration of the part itself I’d like to look at getting one with longer wires, as it comes its short, they probably do not sell one with longer wires direct from Furrion but if its a standard 10K ohm thermistor that opens the door to so many solutions. I also wonder if the Coleman Mach room temperature sensor may be a solution, assuming the are rated the same, has a small whip on it you could easily extend and could easily be wall or ceiling mounted due to its little beauty trim housing.


Thanks

[howson]

Sam_Frodo -- there's a sensor relocation kit that (hopefully) you can get from GD. Give their service department a call and inquire.

[Sam_Frodo]

Sam_Frodo -- there's a sensor relocation kit that (hopefully) you can get from GD. Give their service department a call and inquire.

That’s good to hear. I will call Monday. I did google some and found that there is a relocation kit from Castle Winch as well.

In the event that GD doesn’t have any kits, then I supposed I’ll continue heading down the path of determining if a generic 10K thermistor will work and making up a pigtail made for the wire-to-board connector, or just buy the castle winch kit and call it a day.

I’ve got to say that this is kind of disappointing, but glad its just moving a sensor and not that there is some greater problem.

[RBinMcD]

I just called the customer service number and described this issue. Basically they wanted me to take to a dealer for inspection. I mentioned that some have received a relocation kit. The rep stood by that having a certified technician was my only option. I just said I'll check back later if I want to pursue that.

This seems to be a common issue with this Furrion AC and thermostat combo. So I hoped for better response; particullarly as they've been really great on my last Grand Design.

Did anyone else have luck with customer service?

Robert
2023 Imagine xls 22MLE.

[uwskier]

The 2023s should come with the controller with the black trim ring instead of the gray/silver one. You should see a little 'nub' on the bottom of the black controller. I believe this is intended to "fix" the issues with the heat requiring the AC fan to run in order to get a correct temperature, but it doesn't solve the issue of the idiotic design of having the temp sensor up in the plenum for the A/C.

It's a standard 10k ohm linear thermistor. I'm the one who did the relocation write-up. I'm considering replacing the little tail that hangs out with something else.

[mellyo21]

I agree! I am on my first shake down trip with my 2021 3250BH, and I thought I had an issue with the AC short cycling. I did a little investigating and saw the temperature would drop 2 degrees, every 30 seconds the AC was on. My temp solution was to stick the end of the temperature sensor inside the wire harness dressing to block the cold air from getting to it so quickly. My issue is, this is a terrible design. I don't know how they missed this. It would have shown up right away in validation testing of this until. More importantly I cannot believe how long this has been an issue and Grand Design not only refuses to acknowledge it when you call, but also hasn't released a bulletin to fix it!

[AIShelby]

We took our brand new 2023 Imagine XLS 23LDE on our first trip the week after Easter. First day was warm so ran the AC (cool), evening turned chilly so switched to heat. First hint of problem was that the thermostat temperature on cool was reading 71 and 81 on heat. We had to bump the temperature way up in order to get the heat to turn on. We called our dealer the next morning; he told us that there is a “room sensor” located inside the AC unit in the ceiling which controls the cool and another sensor located at the bottom of the thermostat which controls the heat. We confirmed that both sensors were working by warming with a hair dryer and cooling with icy fingers. When we got home, we called Grand Design and described the problem and we were informed that we probably need a new thermostat. So we called our dealer and were told that they cannot just replace the thermostat but that they would have to go through a series of tests before contacting GD for a repair. When we were able to take the RV to the dealer, he informed me that he had 5 more come in with the same issue. Our thermostat had a couple of additional wires not being used, so our dealer was able to disconnect the room sensor from the ceiling unit and relocate it near the heat sensor on the thermostat. We picked up our RV today and returned it to storage. We’ll be bringing it home soon for a trip in early June so we’ll plug it in and turn the AC on and see how it works. We have our dealer’s assurance that the issue has been resolved and the thermostat will work just like the one we have at home.

We are not new to RVing and we have never had a thermostat, AC or heat that was so wonky. This is our first Grand Design. We really like our Imagine,

[howson]

We took our brand new 2023 Imagine XLS 23LDE on our first trip the week after Easter. First day was warm so ran the AC (cool), evening turned chilly so switched to heat. First hint of problem was that the thermostat temperature on cool was reading 71 and 81 on heat. We had to bump the temperature way up in order to get the heat to turn on. We called our dealer the next morning; he told us that there is a “room sensor” located inside the AC unit in the ceiling which controls the cool and another sensor located at the bottom of the thermostat which controls the heat. We confirmed that both sensors were working by warming with a hair dryer and cooling with icy fingers. When we got home, we called Grand Design and described the problem and we were informed that we probably need a new thermostat. So we called our dealer and were told that they cannot just replace the thermostat but that they would have to go through a series of tests before contacting GD for a repair. When we were able to take the RV to the dealer, he informed me that he had 5 more come in with the same issue. Our thermostat had a couple of additional wires not being used, so our dealer was able to disconnect the room sensor from the ceiling unit and relocate it near the heat sensor on the thermostat. We picked up our RV today and returned it to storage. We’ll be bringing it home soon for a trip in early June so we’ll plug it in and turn the AC on and see how it works. We have our dealer’s assurance that the issue has been resolved and the thermostat will work just like the one we have at home.

We are not new to RVing and we have never had a thermostat, AC or heat that was so wonky. This is our first Grand Design. We really like our Imagine,

Welcome to the forum. Based on the text of your post I'd guess you have a Furrion air conditioner and thermostat. You might find this thread informative: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...ssue-yes-again

Also, please check out the Welcome Letter and fill in your signature line.

Howard

[RBinMcD]

"AIShelby;n113027]We took our brand new 2023 Imagine XLS 23LDE on our first trip the week after Easter. First day was warm so ran the AC (cool), evening turned chilly so switched to heat. First hint of problem was that the thermostat temperature on cool was reading 71 and 81 on heat. We had to bump the temperature way up in order to get the heat to turn on. We called our dealer the next morning; he told us that there is a “room sensor” located inside the AC unit in the ceiling which controls the cool and another sensor located at the bottom of the thermostat which controls the heat. We confirmed that both sensors were working by warming with a hair dryer and cooling with icy fingers. When we got home, we called Grand Design and described the problem and we were informed that we probably need a new thermostat. So we called our dealer and were told that they cannot just replace the thermostat but that they would have to go through a series of tests before contacting GD for a repair. When we were able to take the RV to the dealer, he informed me that he had 5 more come in with the same issue. Our thermostat had a couple of additional wires not being used, so our dealer was able to disconnect the room sensor from the ceiling unit and relocate it near the heat sensor on the thermostat. We picked up our RV today and returned it to storage. We’ll be bringing it home soon for a trip in early June so we’ll plug it in and turn the AC on and see how it works. We have our dealer’s assurance that the issue has been resolved and the thermostat will work just like the one we have at home.

We are not new to RVing and we have never had a thermostat, AC or heat that was so wonky. This is our first Grand Design. We really like our Imagine"

AIShelby this is good info and I learned something, that there are two sensors on my system.

I have been back and forth answering questions with GD Tech support for several weeks and they are sending me a new thermostat. They really wanted me to take it in, but my dealer is 154 miles away and I said I'd buy a thermostat just to see if that's the issue before the time and gas for the trip. I haven't received it yet, so we'll see how that pans out.

We have a '23 22MLE and it sounds like exact same setup as quoted above. I also called my dealer and they didn't have any ideas. So maybe mine is like the quoted and have to temp sensors. To get the ac cool we have to set the temp WAY below what we are trying to achieve. If I want 70, I have to set for 62. This weekend I found the thermister/sensor on the air intake and dropped it down past the filter into the camper by a couple of inches. Seemed to make little if no change. Previously I opened the thermostat and dropped that one down about an inch with no change.

This sounds like what I need to see if I can do or take to the dealer: "Our thermostat had a couple of additional wires not being used, so our dealer was able to disconnect the room sensor from the ceiling unit and relocate it near the heat sensor on the thermostat"

Thanks for the info AI

Robert
'23 22MLE

[AIShelby]

My service writer was out last week when we picked up the RV. Today I was able to obtain a copy of the work order. I cannot copy it so I will type what the problem was, the cause and the correction as noted on the work order.
PROBLEM: AC thermostat reading incorrectly
CAUSE: The air return mounted temp sensors are not functioning properly
CORRECTION: Took down return cover, cut wiring to thermistor, lengthened wire leads for thermistor, removed thermostat to allow room to relocate thermistor to under thermostat, replaced thermostat & return cover

This seems to be the same fix documented by uwskier on 04-09-2022 in thread entitled Furrion AC temp sensor relocation: alternative, parts-free method

We have a different thermostat than uwskier. Ours is Standard single zone wall thermostat Model FACW10ESSA-BL. It is all black with a little black nub under the bottom; the black nub is the heat sensor. Our dealer placed the cool thermistor under the thermostat right next to the heat sensor.

We're going out next week for a few days so we'll give it a test. Hope the fix was successful!

[uwskier]

Interesting that service techs are using that fix now.

[jas451]

I've got a EasyTouch thermostat ordered. Hopefully this will correct this problem of short cycling. We have a 2023 22MLE and have only had it out once so far. Back in mid-June, and it wasn't that hot yet, but the A/C would never reach the set temp of even 76? The location of where they have the 'room sensor' makes no sense. I contacted Furrion/Lippert directly and they said to make sure that the 'room sensor is pointing up' ...ok, but I don't see how that's going to make a difference. It's a bad design and I think that they're grasping for straws. I contacted the GD customer service and they said I would have to take it in to a dealer. Very inconvenient, just so they can tell me the same thing. Disappointed with Grand Design and their response so far. Just hope if the EasyTouch solves this problem, I don't have any issues with the Schwintek slide out......so far so good, but I hold my breath every time that I operate it.😅

[howson]

I've got a EasyTouch thermostat ordered.

Please provide an update when it's installed.

[pappcam]

I've got a EasyTouch thermostat ordered. Hopefully this will correct this problem of short cycling. We have a 2023 22MLE and have only had it out once so far. Back in mid-June, and it wasn't that hot yet, but the A/C would never reach the set temp of even 76? The location of where they have the 'room sensor' makes no sense. I contacted Furrion/Lippert directly and they said to make sure that the 'room sensor is pointing up' ...ok, but I don't see how that's going to make a difference. It's a bad design and I think that they're grasping for straws. I contacted the GD customer service and they said I would have to take it in to a dealer. Very inconvenient, just so they can tell me the same thing. Disappointed with Grand Design and their response so far. Just hope if the EasyTouch solves this problem, I don't have any issues with the Schwintek slide out......so far so good, but I hold my breath every time that I operate it.😅

I replaced my little cheap Dometic thermostat with a Micro-Air EasyTouch thermostat and it seems to have solved my short cycling issue.

[howson]

I replaced my little cheap Dometic thermostat with a Micro-Air EasyTouch thermostat and it seems to have solved my short cycling issue.

Do you have a Furrion? If so, where was the sensor? In the plenum or in the thermostat?