Heater is Keep Making a Ticking Sound (New GD 23BHE)

[howson]

elranas -- did you try TucsonJim's suggested test (post 42)?

I'm going to try and do a test later tonight myself just to know what a working system looks like. If it works out I'll record both events simultaneously and then video dub the two timelines. We'll see if I can pull that off...

You definitely have one of the toughest problems I've read about to date.

[Country Campers]

elranas

You tried to run the furnace trailer off of a new battery to separate the 12 v system.

Try to do the same test with the propane setup you used in the most recent bench test. I believe that this will tell you that the problem is the propane system.

Brian

[howson]

elranas

I performed the test as promised and the edited video is linked below. Bottom line up front: based on how my heater operated yours should not cycle. It is NOT normal.

The heater in my 2019 315RLTS is a Suburban SFV-35Q. While yours is a 25Q, my assumption is the operation should be the same.
While my heater is vertical and yours is horizontal, I do not think that should affect system operation.

The video below is 16 minutes long. Probably horribly boring to everyone but you and me. As you'll hear, the burner never cycled. Note I boosted the bass in the audio channel to make the burner sound more distinguishable. If listening on tiny speakers it may be very difficult to differentiate. (I have my computer hooked up to a sound system with a dedicated subwoofer.)

Heater Test on Howson's 315RLTS

Also, I downloaded your videos from Dropbox, added them (unlisted) to my YouTube channel and posted them below for ease of reference. I hope that's OK with you. If not I'll take them down ASAP--just let me know.

Video 1: Timing the Issue (Elranas' Video)

Video 2: Bench Checking Old Furnace (Elranas' Video)

[howson]

elranas -- somehow I missed that second video when you first posted it. I agree with your conclusions 100%.

[Guest]

This thing is driving me crazy!

I recorded another video bench testing the OLD furnace completely outside the trailer with a separate gas line and a new battery (and bypassing the thermostat) and it worked for 42 minutes straight without the flame going off. I turned it off otherwise it would probably continue indefinitely.

Knowing that it's working as it should have while disconnected completely from the trailer, I went back to the new furnace (the one installed in the RV) and bypassed the electrical in my trailer by connecting the new battery and it failed: flame runs for about 3.5 minutes, off for 1 minute and turns on for another 3.5 and this cycle repeats (fan is on all the time unless system is turned off by the thermostat). I then connected the trailer electrical back and bypassed the propane AND it did the same thing! WHAT?!

For those of you who would think at this point that this is an airflow issue, I have over 400 sq.inch of return (minimum required by AirExcel is 56 sq.inch) and I have all six duct openings utilized so much better than the successful test I did with only two open (see video) AND the old and the new trailer failed the bench test while connected to the trailer electrical and propane.

It is a new RV we bought four months ago. We used it only once and my wife doesn't want to put the kids there until we know it's safe (after all we run this furnace 6 hour during cold nights) - I think she has a point knowing it could be a safety issue. One tech told us that we are abusing the hi-limit switch allowing it to run this way. The hi-limit switch is a safety mechanism not intended to be on and off 12 times an hour and over 70 times over night.

For the past three weeks AirExcel and Grand Design worked diligently to help us find the problem but they are now pretty much telling us that this is normal. I disagree.

Here is the video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/57kcg20lko...rnace.mov?dl=0

elranas

If I'm reading this correctly you ran one good furnace outside the rig on a separate and new battery and propane feed and the furnace ran fine. Then you ran the new furnace installed in the RV on the new battery that was used on the first test and this one failed. What looks different to me is the furnace installed in the rig was ran on the original propane feed? If so, you have a propane feed issue.

Jim

[elranas]

elranas

If I'm reading this correctly you ran one good furnace outside the rig on a separate and new battery and propane feed and the furnace ran fine. Then you ran the new furnace installed in the RV on the new battery that was used on the first test and this one failed. What looks different to me is the furnace installed in the rig was ran on the original propane feed? If so, you have a propane feed issue.

Jim

I also swap to a different propane and it failed as well. That confirms (in my opinion) that this is a problem with airflow.

[BarberArias]

It continuously works with no noticeable issue generating heat and stops when reaching the desired temperature

Not sure if you found a answer in a prior comment.

Mine did the same thing and was a simple fix. It ended up being my 62* t stat on the water heater itself. I replace both (very simple) eco and t stat and boom fixed. $10 on amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7N7W5M...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[elranas]

elranas

I performed the test as promised and the edited video is linked below. Bottom line up front: based on how my heater operated yours should not cycle. It is NOT normal.

The heater in my 2019 315RLTS is a Suburban SFV-35Q. While yours is a 25Q, my assumption is the operation should be the same.
While my heater is vertical and yours is horizontal, I do not think that should affect system operation.

The video below is 16 minutes long. Probably horribly boring to everyone but you and me. As you'll hear, the burner never cycled. Note I boosted the bass in the audio channel to make the burner sound more distinguishable. If listening on tiny speakers it may be very difficult to differentiate. (I have my computer hooked up to a sound system with a dedicated subwoofer.)

Thank you so much for this video! It sheds some light and confirms my theory. You can share my videos no problem and if okay I'll share yours including Grand Design. I think it's important that they see that short cycling every 4.5 minutes is abnormal and poses a safety concern. That hi-limit switch is there for emergencies and causing it to turn ON and OFF 70+ times over a 6 hours night is merely an abuse of a safety mechanism. I think all 23BHE will fail due to a floor design flaw that causes recycling of HOT air (recall?). Take a look at this image of how the ductwork in my trailer is designed to see what I'm talking about -- again just my theory although AirExcel agree that airflow in this trailer is not ideal to say the least.

[elranas]

Not sure if you found a answer in a prior comment.

Mine did the same thing and was a simple fix. It ended up being my 62* t stat on the water heater itself. I replace both (very simple) eco and t stat and boom fixed. $10 on amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7N7W5M...ing=UTF8&psc=1

Thank you but do you know how the two are related?

[BarberArias]

Thank you but do you know how the two are related?

Mine wasn't making a good connection on the tank. So when I turned on the water heater it would barley heat up and then shut off without fully heating the tank. You can try going out to your water heater when it goes out early wiggle your t-stat wires, this will wiggle the thermostat and may make a better connection and it may relight.

[Country Campers]

Mine wasn't making a good connection on the tank. So when I turned on the water heater it would barley heat up and then shut off without fully heating the tank. You can try going out to your water heater when it goes out early wiggle your t-stat wires, this will wiggle the thermostat and may make a better connection and it may relight.

The problem is with the furnace and not the water heater.

Brian

[GDRV-Emily]

I also swap to a different propane and it failed as well. That confirms (in my opinion) that this is a problem with airflow.

Hello elranas I spoke with a Regional Service Manager regarding this issue. Please see his response below.

The furnaces can cycle off from time to time but generally do not during basic usage. So since he pulled the furnace a bench tested it and it ran fine that tells us that the install is restricting air into or out from the furnace is causing it to over heat and shut of on a high limit more than likely. I would advise them to get a tech into it or get the unit to a dealership to be inspected.

I see you have been in contact with customer service as well. I have updated them regarding this post. Your case number is 89739.

Also, will you please double check your VIN you have entered. It does match what we have in the system.

[JB1]

Thank you so much for this video! It sheds some light and confirms my theory. You can share my videos no problem and if okay I'll share yours including Grand Design. I think it's important that they see that short cycling every 4.5 minutes is abnormal and poses a safety concern. That hi-limit switch is there for emergencies and causing it to turn ON and OFF 70+ times over a 6 hours night is merely an abuse of a safety mechanism. I think all 23BHE will fail due to a floor design flaw that causes recycling of HOT air (recall?). Take a look at this image of how the ductwork in my trailer is designed to see what I'm talking about -- again just my theory although AirExcel agree that airflow in this trailer is not ideal to say the least.

elranas,

Just wondering if you have any update on your furnace issue? We are awaiting delivery of our 23BHE and are curious about this issue.

[cricketjv]

Good morning everyone, new the forum but had issues with the heating after buying a used 2021 Imagine 23BHE.

I've followed a few threads and figured I would try running the ducting from all four furnace outlets to test the system without airflow restriction in the heater ducts. When I tried this, the furnace worked perfectly fine. I disconnected two heater ducts and ran them across the trailer, got excellent airflow and heat. In previous comments, airflow kept coming up as an issue. As it turns out, it seems to be the airflow in the actual ductwork as opposed to the return air.

I ended up removing a section of the underbelly and gutted out the ducting. The 2" duct that runs all across to the master bedroom in the front of the trailer was pretty much useless. By the time the air got to the outlet in the room, you could barely feel anything if at all. On top of this being too small a duct, it was pinched immediately coming out of the furnace and had two or three immediate 90 degree bends. Very poor design on the ductwork. I wanted to replace this with a 4" duct but there is no space to run more ducting around the water tanks. The 4" duct that ran in the underbelly and to the dinette area was also somewhat pinched and had a puncture in the duct. The duct went out of the furnace on the right side (passenger side), went into the underbelly, and then had a bend to the left (driver side) to run along the outer edge in front of the black tank. The 2"duct did the same thing, only opposite direction. Every bend increases restriction in the airflow.

In the end, I scarified the outdoor kitchen to re-route the ductwork inside the trailer, instead of the underbelly. I removed the bottom panels of the outdoor kitchen (also the cook top and mini-fridge) and ran three 4" ducts. One goes to the existing side panel by the seating area, another goes to the underbelly in the existing hole from the previously existing 4:duct and runs to the bedroom (highly increased airflow), and for the third I added another duct cover under the table.

Went on a few trips and the heat works excellent now. I never really used that outdoor mini-fridge so I didn't care too much to lose it. I rebuilt the outdoor kitchen area and prepped it for a 22" Blackstone griddle with locking slides. I am almost done with the project, have to work on it here and there, don't have time to finish it in one day. If anyone is interested i can post pictures. Seems to be an older forum, not sure if anyone is still monitoring.

[howson]

Good morning everyone, new the forum but had issues with the heating after buying a used 2021 Imagine 23BHE.

I've followed a few threads and figured I would try running the ducting from all four furnace outlets to test the system without airflow restriction in the heater ducts. When I tried this, the furnace worked perfectly fine. I disconnected two heater ducts and ran them across the trailer, got excellent airflow and heat. In previous comments, airflow kept coming up as an issue. As it turns out, it seems to be the airflow in the actual ductwork as opposed to the return air.

I ended up removing a section of the underbelly and gutted out the ducting. The 2" duct that runs all across to the master bedroom in the front of the trailer was pretty much useless. By the time the air got to the outlet in the room, you could barely feel anything if at all. On top of this being too small a duct, it was pinched immediately coming out of the furnace and had two or three immediate 90 degree bends. Very poor design on the ductwork. I wanted to replace this with a 4" duct but there is no space to run more ducting around the water tanks. The 4" duct that ran in the underbelly and to the dinette area was also somewhat pinched and had a puncture in the duct. The duct went out of the furnace on the right side (passenger side), went into the underbelly, and then had a bend to the left (driver side) to run along the outer edge in front of the black tank. The 2"duct did the same thing, only opposite direction. Every bend increases restriction in the airflow.

In the end, I scarified the outdoor kitchen to re-route the ductwork inside the trailer, instead of the underbelly. I removed the bottom panels of the outdoor kitchen (also the cook top and mini-fridge) and ran three 4" ducts. One goes to the existing side panel by the seating area, another goes to the underbelly in the existing hole from the previously existing 4:duct and runs to the bedroom (highly increased airflow), and for the third I added another duct cover under the table.

Went on a few trips and the heat works excellent now. I never really used that outdoor mini-fridge so I didn't care too much to lose it. I rebuilt the outdoor kitchen area and prepped it for a 22" Blackstone griddle with locking slides. I am almost done with the project, have to work on it here and there, don't have time to finish it in one day. If anyone is interested i can post pictures. Seems to be an older forum, not sure if anyone is still monitoring.

This thread is "old", but this forum is quite active IMHO! Absolutely, please post pics of the modification. Once posted, I'll move your post above (and subsequent posts) to it's own thread and tag it as a modification.

Looking forward to reading and seeing what you've done--digging into the heat ducts is one of the few items I haven't done on my 315RLTS. (Since I live in Florida and mainly travel in the summer there's not much call to use the furnace.)

Howard

P.S. Welcome to the forum!