Today's update on frame issues and sourcing

[steve gravelle]

There is certainly an explosion of postings on Facebook and other sources relating to frame issues on larger fifth wheels, such as Momentums and larger Solitudes. It's really interesting since multiple/most brands use Lippert frames. As we are considering selling our Solitude S 2930, vintage 2020, it's created some concern. We have no symptoms so we're confident the second owner will be fine on this. I've seen information GDRV is using a different brand of frame. Does anyone have any insight on this, and has anyone experienced frame issues and repairs. Thanks for your wisdom!

[Country Campers]

There is a new frame "name" floating around but it will still be manufactured by Lippert. I am not sure of any "real" changes being made to current production models.

Brian

[ajg617]

Dropping mine off at Elkhart tomorrow AM for the issue you mention (among others just as critical - long list). I asked LCI engineering if my 1621 chassis is unique to Grand Design only. It is not. It's used on other brands which they wouldn't identify. So the chassis is built to support multiple brands according to LCI. I'd assume the same for other chassis.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Well if you are intending to get away from frame flex etc....you need to buy a tent. RV frames have been flexing for decades. An 'explosion' of posts on Facebook doesn't really mean anything imo. Next week there will be an 'explosion' of posts about something else...

[ajg617]

Tent poles flex too! Had one snap on me about 3am during a winter camp out - rode that tent about 25 feet downhill on snow before a tree stopped me.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Ouch!
Tree ok?

[AlexPeterson]

Dropping mine off at Elkhart tomorrow AM for the issue you mention (among others just as critical - long list). I asked LCI engineering if my 1621 chassis is unique to Grand Design only. It is not. It's used on other brands which they wouldn't identify. So the chassis is built to support multiple brands according to LCI. I'd assume the same for other chassis.

As someone considering a new 310GK purchase, I’d be curious as to specifically
what observations you have on yours re frame issues.
Thanks

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Dropping mine off at Elkhart tomorrow AM for the issue you mention (among others just as critical - long list). I asked LCI engineering if my 1621 chassis is unique to Grand Design only. It is not. It's used on other brands which they wouldn't identify. So the chassis is built to support multiple brands according to LCI. I'd assume the same for other chassis.

Hope to hear things go well. Ya, GD seems to be taking the brunt of bad press regarding this issue but Lippert frames are under almost all if not all other 'mainstream' RVs.

[ajg617]

Just dropped it. They'll have it two to three weeks. Yikes.

[Crespro]

As someone considering a new 310GK purchase, I’d be curious as to specifically
what observations you have on yours re frame issues.
Thanks

Comment by Changing Lanes RV -- They are not paid by Grand Design for their comment:

"Frame issues are very rare, with less than 1% of fifth wheels over 17K GVWR (not all fifth wheels) having a problem. A very small fraction of a small subset of fifth wheels out there. That information was directly from Lippert via JD's video. We don't know what percentage of fifth wheels on the road are over 17K GVWR, but we would guess it's a small percentage. If we can find solid numbers on this, we will update this post. But we think it's a small fraction (1/100) of another small fraction. But, as tends to happen on social media, a few loud voices (and those who pile on) tend to make the issue seem more widespread than it is."


That said, there are several potential steps to reduce your risk of a frame problem.

1. Bracing -- Install X Factor braces to increase the rigidity of your frame, especially against torsional strain.
2. Airbags -- Metal tends to fatigue and welds tend to break over millions of vibrations. Airbags on the rear axle soften the sharp blows of bumps and reduce the impact on the frame.
3. Suspension -- Replace the bearings, springs and CRE 3000 units at a set interval. I use four years, but that is your decision. Poor suspension creates added loads on the frame due to bumps.
4. GVWR -- A 310GK with 15K creates less stress on the suspension and frame than the larger units. The note above states most of the failures are on 17K to 20K GVWR units.
5. Driver Caution -- We all try to be careful, but some failures are due to the driver hitting a pothole at substantial speed. Driving carefully will reduce your risk.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. There is no guarantee you will never have a problem and I think some frame flex problems are not the fault of the driver. It is good to take reasonable steps to reduce your risk. All five of these steps will be helpful in that effort.

Best,

Charles

[ajg617]

As someone considering a new 310GK purchase, I’d be curious as to specifically
what observations you have on yours re frame issues.
Thanks

Here's the list I gave them. Not all may be related to upper deck flex. The tech that pulled the coach in paid specific attention to the decal ripples before towing it out back to their repair sites.

1) Within 1500 miles all door side lower filon trim screws suddenly snapped letting the filon flap in the breeze
2) Shower soap dish screws snapped at approximately 2500 miles
3) Master control panel shattered in 4 locations in three months of delivery
4) Goosebox pressure relieve valve (new design) exploded pulling out of a fuel stop at about 11,000 miles
5) Goosebox pressure relief valve (original design) exploded pulling into a site at 18,000 miles
6) Decal wrinkles at dropdown frame site on off-door side at 19,000 miles
7) Suspension failures may or may not be related
8) Screws holding the passenger side propane tank strap continue to snap
9) Screws appearing on floor between closet and bed on a recurring basis - not sure but think they are coming from the closet door channels
10) Impossible to keep closet doors sliding smoothly - adjusted multiple time a year because I can't close them
11) Pass thru door no longer aligned properly allowing water onto the level-up controller
12) Replaced front cargo door warped again and difficult to lock
13) Despite W/D appears to be mounted to the floor but it continually moves during travel – I can move it just a little to even it out again, but it seems to slide each trip
14) Filon trim seal detaching on door off-side
15) Bulge from frame in filon at drop down of off-door side where the silicone sealant pulled away.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Just dropped it. They'll have it two to three weeks. Yikes.

I didn't think it took three weeks to build.....

[ajg617]

I didn't think it took three weeks to build.....

It's the taking apart and putting back together again - one week to build. And you know that diagnosing and repairing is a whole different ballgame. Just happy they had me come out.

[AlexPeterson]

Here's the list I gave them. Not all may be related to upper deck flex. The tech that pulled the coach in paid specific attention to the decal ripples before towing it out back to their repair sites.

1) Within 1500 miles all door side lower filon trim screws suddenly snapped letting the filon flap in the breeze
2) Shower soap dish screws snapped at approximately 2500 miles
3) Master control panel shattered in 4 locations in three months of delivery
4) Goosebox pressure relieve valve (new design) exploded pulling out of a fuel stop at about 11,000 miles
5) Goosebox pressure relief valve (original design) exploded pulling into a site at 18,000 miles
6) Decal wrinkles at dropdown frame site on off-door side at 19,000 miles
7) Suspension failures may or may not be related
8) Screws holding the passenger side propane tank strap continue to snap
9) Screws appearing on floor between closet and bed on a recurring basis - not sure but think they are coming from the closet door channels
10) Impossible to keep closet doors sliding smoothly - adjusted multiple time a year because I can't close them
11) Pass thru door no longer aligned properly allowing water onto the level-up controller
12) Replaced front cargo door warped again and difficult to lock
13) Despite W/D appears to be mounted to the floor but it continually moves during travel – I can move it just a little to even it out again, but it seems to slide each trip
14) Filon trim seal detaching on door off-side
15) Bulge from frame in filon at drop down of off-door side where the silicone sealant pulled away.

Thanks, and good luck with the repairs.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Just happy they had me come out.

And I hope you are happy when you leave.