2024 Reflection with 300w MPPT60A controller - batteries dead

[jm561]

Hello All, and thanks in advance for any replies:

Yes, I read the many posts about parasitic drains on the battery, even when the battery disconnect switch is "off". My questions is: Why is my 300w solar panel system (yes, it's exposed to awesome direct sunlight) not able to keep up with these "parasitic" drains from LP/CO2 detectors, and leave my battery dead after 2 days being off shore-power?

• yes, fridge was off
• yes, solar panels were clear and clean
• yes, the solar-power disconnect switch was left "on" so it was feeding > 12V to the battery
• Standard deep-cycle lead battery
• Everything is brand new from factor: bought this travel October 2023
• Trailer is winterized and disconnected from shore power

When I returned to the trailer two days after disconnecting from shore power, there is no power for anything (yes, I turned on the battery disconnect switch to "on"). Power-meter says 1V from battery. When I look at the MPPT60a controller, all four LED lights are flashing, but the panel itself is unresponsive to control buttons on the front panel. OK, so I conclude that the panel itself is getting power form the solar cells, and a power-meter indicates I'm getting 13V from the solar cell input leads. The four-flashing LEDS indicate the battery voltage is too low to charge.

OK, maybe it was a bad battery from the factory. I replaced the battery with another lead deep-cycle unit, Regardless, a completely drained battery can become unable to function properly and retain a charge - charged this new battery and verified 13.7 V output with power meter. Installed the new battery. Fridge and lights, etc. work in the trailer. Then I repeated the process and shut off fridge (any verified all lights and appliances were off) and disconnected the battery via the disconnect switch. No, did not disconnect negative cable - I wanted to see if this would happen again. And it happened again - Yes, the solar charging output switch was "on" sending power to the battery, yes, the battery disconnect switch was "off", cutting power to the 1V bus in the trailer (except for the parasitic items).

So, what am I supposed to conclude here about this solar panel charging system? That it's useless for boon-docking, and basically does nothing?

What am I missing here? Where have I gone wrong?

[TucsonJim]

Hello All, and thanks in advance for any replies:

Yes, I read the many posts about parasitic drains on the battery, even when the battery disconnect switch is "off". My questions is: Why is my 300w solar panel system (yes, it's exposed to awesome direct sunlight) not able to keep up with these "parasitic" drains from LP/CO2 detectors, and leave my battery dead after 2 days being off shore-power?

• yes, fridge was off
• yes, solar panels were clear and clean
• yes, the solar-power disconnect switch was left "on" so it was feeding > 12V to the battery
• Standard deep-cycle lead battery
• Everything is brand new from factor: bought this travel October 2023
• Trailer is winterized and disconnected from shore power

When I returned to the trailer two days after disconnecting from shore power, there is no power for anything (yes, I turned on the battery disconnect switch to "on"). Power-meter says 1V from battery. When I look at the MPPT60a controller, all four LED lights are flashing, but the panel itself is unresponsive to control buttons on the front panel. OK, so I conclude that the panel itself is getting power form the solar cells, and a power-meter indicates I'm getting 13V from the solar cell input leads. The four-flashing LEDS indicate the battery voltage is too low to charge.

OK, maybe it was a bad battery from the factory. I replaced the battery with another lead deep-cycle unit, Regardless, a completely drained battery can become unable to function properly and retain a charge - charged this new battery and verified 13.7 V output with power meter. Installed the new battery. Fridge and lights, etc. work in the trailer. Then I repeated the process and shut off fridge (any verified all lights and appliances were off) and disconnected the battery via the disconnect switch. No, did not disconnect negative cable - I wanted to see if this would happen again. And it happened again - Yes, the solar charging output switch was "on" sending power to the battery, yes, the battery disconnect switch was "off", cutting power to the 1V bus in the trailer (except for the parasitic items).

So, what am I supposed to conclude here about this solar panel charging system? That it's useless for boon-docking, and basically does nothing?

What am I missing here? Where have I gone wrong?

First of all, THANK YOU for listing all the trouble-shooting you've done to date. It's a huge help when we're trying to help you determine what's going on.

One clue that has me interested is "I'm getting 13V from the solar cell input leads". Is this the voltage coming out of the controller to the battery? Or is this the voltage from the solar panel to the controller? The reason I ask is that most MPPT controllers require a voltage that is at least 5 volts higher than the charging voltage. For example, if the charging voltage is 13.8 volts, the voltage into the MPPT from the panel should be at least 18.8 volts. Otherwise, it will not activate.

One other item to check is the input from the MPPT controller to the batteries. On my new unit, the factory installed a shut off switch AND a resettable circuit breaker. Both of those need to be turned on before charging current will flow.

Jim

[howson]

jm561

According to the Parts Lookup website (link on menu bar at the top of this page) the '24 367BHS is equipped with a 370W panel as shown below. (Could be different -- substitutions are common.)



That solar panel part number crosses to a Furrion panel: https://store.lci1.com/370w-rigid-so...ack-2022001310

Unfortunately Lippert doesn't list the specs, so did more digging and found the manual here: https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0005520.pdf

According to the specs, in bright sunshine (nothing shading the panel) the input voltage measured at the controller should be ~34.2 volts. ("Vmp", or operating voltage, is where the controller should keep the solar panel's voltage.)





Again, this should be as measured at the panel input to the solar controller. (Ugly drawing below.)



So echoing Jim's question, where was the 13V you mentioned measured?

Howard

[timlsalem]

Have you got a multimeter? IMO it's the most important tool you need for working on electrical. You'll be able to see how much true watts, volts and amps are coming from anywhere.in your 12V system.

[jm561]

First of all, THANK YOU for listing all the trouble-shooting you've done to date. It's a huge help when we're trying to help you determine what's going on.

One clue that has me interested is "I'm getting 13V from the solar cell input leads". Is this the voltage coming out of the controller to the battery? Or is this the voltage from the solar panel to the controller? The reason I ask is that most MPPT controllers require a voltage that is at least 5 volts higher than the charging voltage. For example, if the charging voltage is 13.8 volts, the voltage into the MPPT from the panel should be at least 18.8 volts. Otherwise, it will not activate.

One other item to check is the input from the MPPT controller to the batteries. On my new unit, the factory installed a shut off switch AND a resettable circuit breaker. Both of those need to be turned on before charging current will flow.

Jim

Thank you TucsonJim / howson / timlsalem for prompt responses: TucsonJim, yes, 13.8V output is controller input from the solar panels...interesting...so the specs reported by howson indicate output should be ~34V. Looks like, I'll be climbing on to the roof with my multimeter to inspect the panels and the wiring more closely. (timlsalem I have a nice Fluke 117 Digital Multimeter).

[reubenray]

Thank you TucsonJim / howson / timlsalem for prompt responses: TucsonJim, yes, 13.8V output is controller input from the solar panels...interesting...so the specs reported by howson indicate output should be ~34V. Looks like, I'll be climbing on to the roof with my multimeter to inspect the panels and the wiring more closely. (timlsalem I have a nice Fluke 117 Digital Multimeter).

You have the same solar setup that I do, so I am watching to see the outcome. I killed my battery by turning off the big red disconnect which was the solar disconnect. Since then my new battery is in my garage with a trickle charge on it.

[howson]

Thank you TucsonJim / howson / timlsalem for prompt responses: TucsonJim, yes, 13.8V output is controller input from the solar panels...interesting...so the specs reported by howson indicate output should be ~34V. Looks like, I'll be climbing on to the roof with my multimeter to inspect the panels and the wiring more closely. (timlsalem I have a nice Fluke 117 Digital Multimeter).

Before you crawl up on the roof, check to see if the wiring into the controller is backwards. In other words, the solar panel input is on the battery inputs on the controller and the battery leads are plugged into the solar controller's (PV) inputs.

Howard

[jm561]

Before you crawl up on the roof, check to see if the wiring into the controller is backwards. In other words, the solar panel input is on the battery inputs on the controller and the battery leads are plugged into the solar controller's (PV) inputs.

Howard

Well, the wiring was correct on the controller. I did climb up on the roof and found the solar-panel connection to the power leads and inspected them. They looked ok, but I decided to clean and dry the connector points (they were wet). When I checked the voltage at the connector it was 27.6V. I reconnected everything then checked back down at the controller and got ~27V there as well, so my theory was that the solar panel connection was poor and not very weather-proof. I sealed up the connection with some silicon. I did bring another charged battery with me, and when I placed it into the trailer, the solar controller reported that it was charging the battery. This time I checked the battery draw. With all 12V items turned off, I saw a draw of ~110mA on my Ammeter. So, I yanked the LP detector 12V fused out and of course, the draw went down to zero.

So, after all this...after I "fixed" the solar-panel connector on the roof...I decided to be a glutton for punishment, and put the fuses back in, with the newly charged battery, and left the trailer to fend for itself with just the solar panels providing power to top off the batteries.

My back-of-the-napkin calculation say this:

• I will be generous and double the draw of the LP detector, say 220mA. This means, it will draw 1A in about 4.5hrs
• A standard deep-cycle car battery has a nominal amp-hour rating of about 70-75 - I will be conservative and say "50" amp-hours.
• If I use a 50 amp-hour capacity for my battery, it will support the LP detector for about 9.4 days. This is with out any contribution from the solar-panels...

I am going back in 5 days to check the trailer again (I live 2 hours away from where the trailer is parked on a seasonal site).
Stay tunned....


Wait, wait...I know what you're going to say: "If you park the trailer at a seasonal site, why do you care about solar anyway?..." Glad you asked. The site runs from April to October. At the end of October they shutoff the power and water. I want to monitor my trailer during the winter months, so I plan to leave a 5G cell modem and a Ring camera active in my trailer. This combination actually works great assuming you have a stable 5V USB power source to continuous charge the modem and the camera's batteries. BUT ONLY if the solar panels actually do their job and provide power to top off the trailer battery to supply power to the USB plugs!!! Aaarrghhh!

[Country Campers]

"wet solar wire connection", that is bad. Any moisture at any electrical connection is not good. I think you found the problem.

Brian