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  • #1

    I don’t get it

    First let me start by saying that I love my Imagine. In three years of ownership we have had one issue and GD sent me the parts with a week. It has held up perfectly. Ok so now that that is out of the way here I go.

    Today we went to look at the 2023 Reflection 312BHTS (we are looking to upgrade). We also looked at 4 other unit. 3 from GD and one from Alliance. All this RVs had one thing in common: they were disgusting. Wood chips and dirt inside every cabinet drawer, the floor, the bathroom, the passthrough storage (you get the point). Why would someone trying to sell a product looking like that? A brand new $65K RV. It makes no sense.

    Also, if GD has a PDI section, why would they let a trailer leave the factory looking like that? I just don't understand. Anyways that’s all I got.

    Oh and of course I am not buying a RV from this dealer.
    2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn, CC SB 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
    2021 GD Imagine 2800BH
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Giesis

    First . . . Great to learn about your experience with your current Imagine.

    The entire Indiana RV manufacturing is a piece work industry . . . putting units together as fast as they can. That is-what-it-is . . . and what we all deal with if we want to take part in this lifestyle. WRT all the sawdust . . . that shakes out during the trip from Indiana to your dealer. My Reflection is over 8 years old and I still find sawdust that shakes out of somewhere!

    Grand Design does clean up the units before shipping (I have seen this firsthand) but it is on the dealer to do another cleanup after it arrives. Some dealers seem to think that they will clean up a rig after someone agrees to buy it. This will change as the market evolves and dealers have to try a little harder to make a sale.

    I hope your upgrade search finds what you are looking for . . . but it is wise to understand what the RV manufacturing industry is capable of.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS
    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
    Bayham, Ontario, Canada
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    • #3
      Our Reflection was spotless when we did our walk through, the dealer did a nice job cleaning it up if it needed it. This unit came straight from GD to the dealer and then to us. For the first year of use we found saw dust every trip.
      This does fall on GD and i think mostly on the dealer.
      Also with the mad rush of production over the past couple years I think some of this cleanliness has gone by the wayside.

      Brian
      Brian & Michelle
      2018 Reflection 29RS
      2022 Chevy 3500HD

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
        Our Reflection was spotless when we did our walk through, the dealer did a nice job cleaning it up if it needed it. This unit came straight from GD to the dealer and then to us. For the first year of use we found saw dust every trip.
        This does fall on GD and i think mostly on the dealer.
        Also with the mad rush of production over the past couple years I think some of this cleanliness has gone by the wayside.

        Brian
        Ours was super clean also. LazyDays in Tucson did a fantastic job. I am going to have to drive 900 miles and buy from them.
        2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn, CC SB 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
        2021 GD Imagine 2800BH
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
          Giesis

          First . . . Great to learn about your experience with your current Imagine.

          The entire Indiana RV manufacturing is a piece work industry . . . putting units together as fast as they can. That is-what-it-is . . . and what we all deal with if we want to take part in this lifestyle. WRT all the sawdust . . . that shakes out during the trip from Indiana to your dealer. My Reflection is over 8 years old and I still find sawdust that shakes out of somewhere!

          Grand Design does clean up the units before shipping (I have seen this firsthand) but it is on the dealer to do another cleanup after it arrives. Some dealers seem to think that they will clean up a rig after someone agrees to buy it. This will change as the market evolves and dealers have to try a little harder to make a sale.

          I hope your upgrade search finds what you are looking for . . . but it is wise to understand what the RV manufacturing industry is capable of.

          Rob
          I think they need to start cleaning as they go instead of at the end. That will solve 80% of the sawdust issue.
          2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn, CC SB 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
          2021 GD Imagine 2800BH
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          • #6
            If they would take a blower to the unit before sticking the sidewalls in place they could probably eliminate more than 80% of the sawdust and other misc construction debris.

            I've looked behind the false wall in the 5er basement. Let's just say I put it back up in a hurry otherwise I'd have had to move in there to clean for a week.
            Joseph
            Tow             Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
            Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
            South of Houston Texas

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            • #7
              I can’t disagree that taking time to clean as they go, such as vacuuming out spaces before they close then up, would be better but would add time to the construction process. Not likely to happen in a piece work industry. Much of the floor area is covered with taped down cardboard during manufacturing to prevent damage. This cardboard and tape collects a lot of the construction debris and is not removed until construction is complete.

              I am not trying to defend this process . . . just explaining why any RV is likely to arrive with sawdust and even off cut pieces in the hidden spaces.

              Rob
              Cate & Rob
              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
              2015 Reflection 303RLS
              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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              • #8
                Like Cate&Rob says. I think most dealers wait to do one (poor) cleanup after a deal is made on the unit and before the PDI.
                2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

                Comment

                • #9
                  The industry as a whole is lousy in regards to delivering an issue free, clean, quality product. I think I should have listened when friends told me to buy used 2-3 years old, so the first owner would have already dealt with all of the issues left by the manufacturer. I think what you get when you take delivery largely depends on the dealer. We live in Houston and bought from Lazy Days in Knoxville and had the trailer delivered to us. It was very clean on the in-service inspection and arrival, but still finding sawdust occasionally after 3 years.
                  Eddie & Kathy
                  2021 Imagine 2970RL
                  2019 Ram 2500 Laramie Mega Cab 4x4 Cummins 6.7L
                  Houston, TX

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ebkent62 View Post
                    The industry as a whole is lousy in regards to delivering an issue free, clean, quality product. I think I should have listened when friends told me to buy used 2-3 years old, so the first owner would have already dealt with all of the issues left by the manufacturer. I think what you get when you take delivery largely depends on the dealer. We live in Houston and bought from Lazy Days in Knoxville and had the trailer delivered to us. It was very clean on the in-service inspection and arrival, but still finding sawdust occasionally after 3 years.
                    Maybe I am just being unreasonable. Maybe I just need to accept that the new standard is quantity over quality.
                    2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn, CC SB 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
                    2021 GD Imagine 2800BH

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      The first 337RLS we tried to buy was in horrible condition when presented at the PDI. After a lengthy discussion with the sales and service managers, I made it clear what our expectations were and we agreed on a 3 week timeline. Mind you that I had the check in my pocket for the trailer. I told them I was horrified that they would attempt to present a unit so flawed to a customer. We left, and the day before our agreed second PDI I received a call from a different manager who right away started making excuses. I asked if the repairs had been done and all I heard was the beginning of a diatribe on excuses. I shut him down and said the deal was off and he could explain to the salesperson how the sale was lost. I then returned the check to the credit union and cancelled the loan. Unfortunately for them they had already switched the unit to a king bed AND installed the Splendide washer dryer combo.
                      I dont play around with people who take me for a fool. 3 Months later we closed the deal on a trailer fresh from the factory and have enjoyed it ever since.
                      2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Giesis View Post

                        Maybe I am just being unreasonable. Maybe I just need to accept that the new standard is quantity over quality.
                        I don’t think your expectations are unreasonable . . . given the money it takes to acquire one of these RVs. But, we have no better choice. There is no other source for (close to) reasonably priced RVs. I have described the analogy of the auto industry . . . 50 years ago (1970s) most cars came from Detroit and quality was not unlike the current RV industry. In came competitors from Japan with better quality at the same price. Detroit had no choice but to improve or go out of business. There is no outside competition to drive improvement in the RV industry. There is no reason to expect improvements in RV quality in the foreseeable future . . .

                        Rob

                        Cate & Rob
                        (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                        2015 Reflection 303RLS
                        2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                        Bayham, Ontario, Canada
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                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Giesis View Post
                          Maybe I am just being unreasonable.
                          Not at all. Unfortunately most folks don't know that caveat emptor should be CAVEAT EMPTOR when it comes to buying an RV. (Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic.)

                          I was fortunate enough to "meet" Cate&Rob and TucsonJim on another forum in late 2017, six months before I bought my 315RLTS. Through diligent reading of the forum, and asking a lot of questions, I went prepared when it came to pick up my trailer. I warned the dealer ahead of time (even sent him a copy of my checklist). The DW hit the inside with her checklist and I inspected the exterior. Seven hours later we were done (this included the time it took the dealer to fix all the issues we found). Thankfully nothing was a deal-breaker, but I was prepared to walk away.

                          An RV can be a great tool for making memories; but the reality is there has to be a cold, emotionless approach to the initial purchase decision.

                          Howard

                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          Howard & Francine
                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                            I don’t think your expectations are unreasonable . . . given the money it takes to acquire one of these RVs. But, we have no better choice. There is no other source for (close to) reasonably priced RVs. I have described the analogy of the auto industry . . . 50 years ago (1970s) most cars came from Detroit and quality was not unlike the current RV industry. In came competitors from Japan with better quality at the same price. Detroit had no choice but to improve or go out of business. There is no outside competition to drive improvement in the RV industry. There is no reason to expect improvements in RV quality in the foreseeable future . . .

                            Rob
                            You are more than right. I know i am going to find what I am looking for. It has to be out there. If not, well we are happy with our Imagine.
                            2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn, CC SB 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
                            2021 GD Imagine 2800BH

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                            • #15
                              There are things I know only because I did them wrong the first time. Ask me about our first new RV purchase...... I dare you (please read this with as much sarcasm as possible)
                              2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

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