Upper Deck flex?

[ajg617]

I know I've seen pictures of this on either a YT video or another forum, but decal wrinkles in the area shown in the picture were prominent on where ever I had seen the flex issue (and it was a Solitude). These wrinkles were never apparent until recently. We have had flex concerns from day one (broken filon screws, screws falling out in closet area, goosebox manifolds blowing out).

[Yoda]

I know I've seen pictures of this on either a YT video or another forum, but decal wrinkles in the area shown in the picture were prominent on where ever I had seen the flex issue (and it was a Solitude). These wrinkles were never apparent until recently. We have had flex concerns from day one (broken filon screws, screws falling out in closet area, goosebox manifolds blowing out).

Have you contacted GD customer service (number on home page) I believe your still in warranty (structural) Send them pictures of your concern and get a case number. you don't indicate a location of where your at, but find a truck frame repair shop, or industrial trailer center and see if they can do a frame inspection. They will need a bore scope if they dont remove panels.

Question - do you have a trusted GD dealer? If not let GD know this so you can possibly get a qualified mobile person to check. I asked about your dealer as the normal practice to do a full inspection is to remove the front curved panel to expose the whole frame. This would probably need GD approval

Now a test you can do in your drive, is when you hook up, measure the amount of flex up front. Others here will have the details on how to do this.

Safe travels and hoping for the best.
Keith

[ajg617]

Have you contacted GD customer service (number on home page) I believe your still in warranty (structural) Send them pictures of your concern and get a case number. you don't indicate a location of where your at, but find a truck frame repair shop, or industrial trailer center and see if they can do a frame inspection. They will need a bore scope if they dont remove panels.

Question - do you have a trusted GD dealer? If not let GD know this so you can possibly get a qualified mobile person to check. I asked about your dealer as the normal practice to do a full inspection is to remove the front curved panel to expose the whole frame. This would probably need GD approval

Now a test you can do in your drive, is when you hook up, measure the amount of flex up front. Others here will have the details on how to do this.

Safe travels and hoping for the best.
Keith

Keith,
I emailed a picture to the customer service manager in the c-suite that has been supporting us with our suspension breakdown in Glacier and who set up our April factory appointment in Elkhart, as well as the service team at Elkhart . Front flex is on the agenda for April 22nd visit. This was new find for me - had not seen it before. The dealer was supposed to measure front flex last year but they never dropped the filon (clue - original silicone seal on trim pieces) and LCI said the numbers they sent them were worthless and wrong. We have GD and LCI cases.

GD said they may have to remove the front cap depending on what they find. I would like to measure the front flex when I hook up - there has always been a lot (at least to me) of side-to-side rocking movement of the wing set while underway when I didn't feel it in the truck - always thought that was odd. That and we've also broken all the lower filon trim screws on door side, screws keep appearing on the floor near the closet, have had to re-adjust the closet 4 times now to open the doors, and might have an off-door side pass thru door alignment issue (same side as the rippled decal), plus we keep blowing the Goosebox manifolds (pulling out of truck fuel stop and pulling into site at campground). We are in NH and headed to GD Elkhart factory in mid-April.

These are the two videos that got me out looking at the decals today. :42 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXpA9xBpOc&t=0s and 4:09 in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctQ4K5ZoEik

I would like to correctly try and measure flex once we hook up (seems to be a variety of YT videos with different procedures - but I'm unsure where to measure with the Goosebox) - unfortunately we are in the 10-15" snow band for tonight/tomorrow so it might be awhile.
regards,
John

[Yoda]

Keith,
I emailed a picture to the customer service manager in the c-suite that has been supporting us with our suspension breakdown in Glacier and who set up our April factory appointment in Elkhart, as well as the service team at Elkhart . Front flex is on the agenda for April 22nd visit. This was new find for me - had not seen it before. The dealer was supposed to measure front flex last year but they never dropped the filon (clue - original silicone seal on trim pieces) and LCI said the numbers they sent them were worthless and wrong. We have GD and LCI cases.

GD said they may have to remove the front cap depending on what they find. I would like to measure the front flex when I hook up - there has always been a lot (at least to me) of side-to-side rocking movement of the wing set while underway when I didn't feel it in the truck - always thought that was odd. That and we've also broken all the lower filon trim screws on door side, screws keep appearing on the floor near the closet, have had to re-adjust the closet 4 times now to open the doors, and might have an off-door side pass thru door alignment issue (same side as the rippled decal), plus we keep blowing the Goosebox manifolds (pulling out of truck fuel stop and pulling into site at campground). We are in NH and headed to GD Elkhart factory in mid-April.

These are the two videos that got me out looking at the decals today. :42 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXpA9xBpOc&t=0s and 4:09 in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctQ4K5ZoEik

I would like to correctly try and measure flex once we hook up (seems to be a variety of YT videos with different procedures - but I'm unsure where to measure with the Goosebox) - unfortunately we are in the 10-15" snow band for tonight/tomorrow so it might be awhile.
regards,
John

TucsonJim Cate&Rob
John I am tagging a couple of folks with more knowledge than I have on frame flex. Be careful of Y-tube videos as more often that not thier wrong. Your contacts at GD can probably give you the correct method to measure the flex. They may hand you off to Lippert, so if you have any contacts there follow up. . If not contact Lippert customer service and start case with them. I had good luck with my frame cracks they paid to fix. The last I knew is GD has a good working relationship with Lippert who built your frame..

Stay safe in the storm (8" here in the next 24 hours) but the weather folks are known to be wrong most of the time here. Usually under predicting

Hope this helps
Keith

[ajg617]

Be careful of Y-tube videos as more often that not thier wrong. Your contacts at GD can probably give you the correct method to measure the flex. They may hand you off to Lippert, so if you have any contacts there follow up. . If not contact Lippert customer service and start case with them. I had good luck with my frame cracks they paid to fix. The last I knew is GD has a good working relationship with Lippert who built your frame..

Stay safe in the storm (8" here in the next 24 hours) but the weather folks are known to be wrong most of the time here. Usually under predicting

Hope this helps
Keith

Hi Keith,
YT caution noted and I don't think they are measuring flex correctly, but believe they are dealing with the same Christine that is assisting us (one of Don Clark's senior CS folks). Had cases open with GD and LCI last year. It was LCI that told me the dealer measurements were absolute garbage and incorrectly done and correct flex measurement required filon removal. On the agenda for our April visit to the factory but I believe what I will do is move my dash cam to the rear window of the truck and film the wing/pinbox movement while driving from NH to IN.

And the weather folks aren't any better here and I work part time for NOAA.

[TucsonJim]

TucsonJim Cate&Rob
John I am tagging a couple of folks with more knowledge than I have on frame flex.

Unfortunately, frame flex is not one of the subjects that GDRV has shared with us during our annual training. There are too many variables such as weight, RV length, etc, that come into play for us to provide guidance on what is acceptable and what isn't.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

A way to observe/measure upper deck flex is to place the pin on a tripod (of sufficient strength to carry the full pin weight) and raise the landing gear. You can measure how much the landing gear can be raised before it lifts off the ground, but I have no idea whether this measurement is something that Lippert or Grand Design could relate to, or how much is acceptable. This is a static measurement and dynamic flex while towing would be greater. I use a pin tripod quite regularly, so have been observing this flex for many years on my Reflection 303RLS. It has always been there and does not seem to change over the years.

Rob

[ajg617]

A way to observe/measure upper deck flex is to place the pin on a tripod (of sufficient strength to carry the full pin weight) and raise the landing gear. You can measure how much the landing gear can be raised before it lifts off the ground, but I have no idea whether this measurement is something that Lippert or Grand Design could relate to, or how much is acceptable. This is a static measurement and dynamic flex while towing would be greater. I use a pin tripod quite regularly, so have been observing this flex for many years on my Reflection 303RLS. It has always been there and does not seem to change over the years.

Rob

LCI has a form to fill out - unfortunately it requires removing the filon. No tripod here but that is an interesting way of static measurement. So many YT videos where people are measuring random points on the pinbox to the cap as they lift/lower the trailer - and none seem very 'precise' so I don't put much faith in their style. Our flex concern started on our first trip to Sioux Falls last year when all the filon trim screws snapped. Paid a visit to the local GD dealer and walked out to a freshly delivered 310 to show him what I was referring to and that one had all the screws snapped as well. Ever since then, I occasionally glance in the rear view and I do see frame movement, but not straight up and down but wings flexing a bit side to side as the road surface changes. We are heavily optioned up front with the Genset and W/D. I wonder how many 310s on the road have 8K axles, generator, W/D, and run a Goosebox? Probably not too many.

Never was happy with the dealer install of the Goosebox - drilled holes in one wing were nearly invisible but on the other a good 3/16" showing.

[ajg617]

Snow finally cleared and got inside to start cleaning for trip to Elkhart Thursday. Sorry I did. I simply can not explain the amount of trim issues that occurred over the winter with the unit level and still showing level. From front cap to rear wall, it's insane - trim panels popped everywhere, daylight coming in on the rear wall where there never was before. But yet again, I could not open the bedroom closet doors despite the fact that they worked fine when leveled in the fall. Then I spotted a couple of screws in the closet shoe area that were sitting 1/4" above where they should have been secured. Off-door side (which is where most of the other flex symptoms are) was much worse than the door side. I verified that the lag bolts under the dresser were in place - did not want to take the wood trim off on the off-door side though much of it has popped loose around the bed frame. But gaps between ceiling and trim are now very noticeable. My confidence level about safely arriving in Elkhart is not high. Two pictures from today now added to the below list sent to GD.

1) Within 1500 miles all door side lower filon trim screws suddenly snapped letting the filon flap in the breeze
2) Shower soap dish screws snapped at approximately 2500 miles
3) Master control panel shattered in 4 locations in three months of delivery
4) Goosebox pressure relieve valve (new design) exploded pulling out of a fuel stop at about 11,000 miles
5) Goosebox pressure relief valve (original design) exploded pulling into a site at 18,000 miles
6) Decal wrinkles at dropdown frame site on off-door side at 19,000 miles
7) Suspension failures may or may not be related
8) Screws holding the passenger side propane tank strap continue to snap
9) Screws appearing on floor between closet and bed on a recurring basis - not sure but think they are coming from the closet door channels
10) Impossible to keep closet doors sliding smoothly - adjusted multiple time a year because I can't close them
11) Pass thru door no longer aligned properly allowing water onto the level-up controller
12) Replaced front cargo door warped again and difficult to lock
13) Despite W/D appears to be mounted to the floor but it continually moves during travel – I can move it just a little to even it out again, but it seems to slide each trip
14) Filon trim seal detaching on door off-side
15) Bulge from frame in filon at drop down of off-door side where the silicone sealant pulled away.


Notice two screws on off-door side and only one on door side.