Factory 12v fridge and factory solar panel

[ncitro]

howson i had a feeling that might be the case but was not sure. As you said, I'd think that's got to be solvable. Maybe it's time to upgrade the front bay locks in fifth wheels, or use a more secure lockable box in the trailers.

[Country Campers]

howson

Actually the propane tanks are installed by the manufactures, they are just empty and filled by the dealer.

Brian

[Guest]

II know this is 4 months old but I want to add to it. People in other groups are finding that this 12v fridge consumes 30-60 amp hours per day (some have even seen higher).. the 175w panel doesn't put out enough power at most campsites or areas to do too much. This was a catastrophic decision of grand design. Those of us that go off grid for any length of time can't do a 12v power sucker. We can run a month on $12 of propane. Grand design did this to save themselves money on the install of a fridge. No exhaust, no propane lines, cheaper to purchase.. etc.. Some people are getting by, by insuring they get open campsites, add 600w solar farm and many expensive batteries then praying for sunny weather. I have new grand design and my parents and brother just purchased as well. Propane fridge was a MUST. When we look at our next camper, if it doesn't have the propane fueled option, the camper is being removed from possibility of purchase. 12v only works well for those that never unplug it. It also reduces the value of your camper because there is a large amount of people that will not buy a camper with a 12v fridge. Guy next to us last summer in a campground that allowed generator to be used 2 hrs in am and 2 hrs in pm tried running his all day because he had no sun for the solar and 12v fridge destroyed battery. Campground told him he had to shut generator off.. he hooked up camper and left. Before he left he told me "salesman told me this thing wouldn't be a problem. This is never happening again.. we are going to look for a propane fridge".
I realize the people who never unplug say "works well".. I'm here for the people who unplug and see a 30-60aH power sucker and say it does not work for us.

A simple solution for GDRV is to offer a dry camp package where there would be no surprises. Since these rigs are being sold with a solar panel, the dry camp package could offer an absorption refrigerator option, a standard hot water tank And/Or a 12V fridge with a lithium battery. Reading of too much disappointment from folks that go out with their new rig to dry camp and return disappointed.

Most folks do not want to start adding expensive add-ons after buying a rig they thought would deliver.

howson

Howard the dragonfly batteries only come with a three year warranty so cost most likely is the factor here for a factory option. Could GDRV equip rigs with a standard Battle Born battery or other brand battery upon request? I'm not sure how this would play out.

Jim

[TucsonJim]

A simple solution for GDRV is to offer a dry camp package where there would be no surprises. Since these rigs are being sold with a solar panel, the dry camp package could offer an absorption refrigerator option, a standard hot water tank And/Or a 12V fridge with a lithium battery. Reading of too much disappointment from folks that go out with their new rig to dry camp and return disappointed.

Most folks do not want to start adding expensive add-ons after buying a rig they thought would deliver.

howson

Howard the dragonfly batteries only come with a three year warranty so cost most likely is the factor here for a factory option. Could GDRV equip rigs with a standard Battle Born battery or other brand battery upon request? I'm not sure how this would play out.

Jim

This will definitely be a topic of conversation when the moderators travel to GDRV in April.

Jim

[On The Fly]

I picked up my 303RLS the first of the year and installed 3, 100ah lithium batteries. I have not felt comfortable with the concept of a 12v refrigerator powered by a 165w panel with a furrion charge controller. For a test run I used a generator to fully charge the battery bank, partially filled the refrigerator and turned off the battery disconnect. After 24 hrs the batteries stood at 83% SOC. After 48 hours the State of Charge was 69%. In two days the 12v refrigerator consumed all the solar and approximately 100ah from the battery bank. Note that I took these reading using a Victron shunt on bright sunny days.
I would like to hear about power consumption from people that have a good battery monitor, because my initial numbers are telling me that you would not be able to make it two days with dual lead acid batteries.
By the way, my refrigerator is 16 cubic feet.

I'm off for three days, off the grid, so when I return I'll up date my refrigerator power usage.

[On The Fly]

Okay, back from dry camping for three days at the beach.

I have been communicating with Furrion Customer Service (FCS) and Grand Design Customer Service (GDCS) concerning two issues:
First, I have 3 Battle Born Batteries and a Victron Smart Shunt. The Furrion 50-amp solar controller will not Top Balance a Lithium batteries to 14.4volts. I monitored the battery bank for 5 days with the battery switch in the off position, the refrigerator turned off and the solar panel in full sun exposure. The only way the smart shunt would sense a full charge is to connect to shore power or connect a generator. I am still waiting for FCS to address.
Second, 16 cubic ft 12v Refrigerator. It consumed 33% (90amps) of my battery bank and all solar production in a two-day period. Furrion’ s recommendation is to place the refrigerator function on “vacation” mode to reduce power consumption. Changing to vacation mode does in fact reduce power consumption. In three days, the net loss was approximately 24amp/hr. However, the problem with this approach is the “vacation” temperature of a 42-degree setting violates Health Department protocols for food storage. To prevent bacterial growth, The Health Dept., recommends a temperature range of 35-38 degrees.

GDCS has been helpful concerning the refrigerator issue. They stated that the 165w solar was in fact a “starter system” and I could add solar panels and batteries as needed. Another GDCS representative stated that the 165w solar panel should be thought of as a device to top off batteries while in storage. Grand Design has never made the claim that the 165w solar would replace the power consumed by the 12v 16 cu ft refrigerator.
Hopefully, this information will be of value so that you can make informed decisions.

[howson]

I have 3 Battle Born Batteries and a Victron Smart Shunt. The Furrion 50-amp solar controller will not Top Balance a Lithium batteries to 14.4volts. I monitored the battery bank for 5 days with the battery switch in the off position, the refrigerator turned off and the solar panel in full sun exposure. The only way the smart shunt would sense a full charge is to connect to shore power or connect a generator. I am still waiting for FCS to address.

Bill,
The issue with the Furrion could be the Victron SmartShunt sensing a full charge prematurely due to Synchronisation [sic] issues. See par 10.3.8 in the SmartShunt manual where it references this issue.

Briefly, the tail-current setting tells the battery monitor how long it should sense a low current ("absorption" level current) before synchronizing to 100% . Since solar tends to be very low amperage in the morning and evening, it is easy for the battery monitor to get fooled. Cloudy days can do this, too.

Lots of info on this topic on the web and specifically victron forums. Google "victron tail current solar" and there will be a lot of links to follow.

Also, what is meant by the phrase "Top Balance"? When the Battle Borns stop accepting a charge (end of absorption mode) the SmartShunt should read ~13.6vDC. My system (as I write this) shows a 99% SoC at 13.26V. Below is a chart showing today's charging from solar (the camper is not plugged in to shore power). As you can see, the 14.4V was only reached briefly during (I assume) the Absorption phase.



Howard