260RB GFCI and Converter on One Circuit Breaker

[RBaustert]

Moderator Note: Updated the thread's title and added the Reference Library tag to this thread so (hopefully) others can find the information contained in this thread (which is excellent IMHO). -Howard

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Greetings all,

I just finished battery upgrade and inverter install in my 2024 Transcend 260 RB, with Litime 230 AH lifepo4 battery and Litime 3000w inverter. I moved the battery to inside the passthrough and mounted the inverter in the same location. I used 2/0 cable from battery to busbars (less than 12" in length) and Litime supplied cables from busbar to inverter. I ran 10-gauge cable from the inverter high energy output to a 30-amp plug installed inside the passthrough. I also extended the original battery cables on the tongue, into the passthrough and connected them to the busbars. And I installed a Renogy 500-amp battery monitor. Tested all points and consistently getting 13.2-13.3 volts. (Yes, I know this is low for lifepo4, but we are not done playing the WFCO auto detect BS game yet). And from my previous post about the solar controller bluetooth not working, I cannot change the solar to a lifepo4 profile until I can get the solar controller replaced.

This set up permits me to plug the shoreline into the inverter to power the entire trailer from battery. Everything powered up as it should have when I tested the install. I am aware that with this solution, I need to shut off the converter/charger. This is where the problem arises. When I turn off the converter breaker, I lose all of my GFCI outlets, including TV, antenna, and recliners. If I turn the breaker back on, the GFCI outlets become live, so I know the GFCI is not tripping. I purposedly tripped the GFCI to verify that the TV, antenna, and recliner were on that circuit. They are. All outlets in the trailer, with the exception of two in the bedroom, are on the GFCI circuit. There is a breaker in the panel labeled "General" which I assumed would be the all the outlets, but after testing, I discovered that breaker runs ONLY the two non-GFCI bedroom outlets. Does anyone know if Grand Design purposely wires the GFCI circuit with the Converter circuit. I haven't yet taken apart the distribution panel, but I'm thinking that is my next step.

As a precautionary check, I also tested the system on generator. The same thing happens without the inverter running, so again, I know it is not something I did.

P.S. The trailer is new six weeks ago. Yes, I know that I should have the dealership look at this. And I will be reaching out to them, as well as Grand Design on Monday. I am just frustrated this has to be complicated. The dealership provided me with a 50 AH lead acid battery. I asked them about upgrading to lithium through them when I bought it, and they quoted over $1200 for a single 100 AH lifepo4 battery, without inverter. Yeah, that wasn't happening.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or suggestions.

Ron

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Assuming you used the 'inverter prep' wire which is used to only power a part of the 120vac panel. (The bus bar is split) But I don't hear you mentioning a transfer switch..either manual or automatic. You need one.
Without one you will lose the inverter circuits every time you have 120vac shore power. The inverter detects the 120 supply so it stops inverting..so your receptacles go dead. With a transfer switch, they would be reconnected to the 120vac supply.

I don't have an inverter setup, Jim, Howard, and Neil do. They will come by in a bit and confirm or deny my theory.

Jomani has an excellent little video on explaining how GD panels and the inverter prep wiring works.
https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...pre-wired-gdrv

[Country Campers]

I believe that the converter is built in to he power distribution panel in your model. You could pull this panel and move the converter power wire to the "general" circuit so when you turn that circuit off the converter will be off. The wiring design in these units leave much to be desired, change to fit your needs and move on is the best opinion I can give. Also check your inverter specs I think it can draw more than your single battery can output.

Brian

[ncitro]

I agree with Brian. If you pull the cover on the breaker panel you’ll probably find two wires on that breaker. One for the converter and one going out to the GFCI outlets. If you’ve got space in the panel you could add a dedicated breaker for the converter or as Brian suggested move it to get general circuit (but then when you turn it off to run the inverter you’ll lose those outlets).

Scott, just to eliminate confusion he’s not using a transfer switch because he’s manually plugging the shore cord into the inverter when he wants to use it. This is similar to what Jim did on his old trailer.

[J & J Bumblebee]

This is something I was pondering for my Xls 22 RB. I have the WFCO 8735 AD, and it's on the GFCI breaker. What would or wouldn't happen if you just removed that wire that feeds the converter from the breaker instead of switching it the the general breaker?

[Country Campers]

This is something I was pondering for my Xls 22 RB. I have the WFCO 8735 AD, and it's on the GFCI breaker. What would or wouldn't happen if you just removed that wire that feeds the converter from the breaker instead of switching it the the general breaker?

Then how would you power the converter when needed? The converter will need power to operate when on shore power.

Brian

[J & J Bumblebee]

Then how would you power the converter when needed? The converter will need power to operate when on shore power.

Brian

That's what I was wondering. The 'Adventurists' shut off the breaker in their YouTube video after installing their inverter. Which would be the same as removing that wire. 23:04 in their video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM_8...ist=WL&index=4

John

[ncitro]

I did a similar install for my in law’s and out a switch by the inverter outlet that killed power to his converter and refrigerators (to force it to propane). That would be fairly easy to do.

[RBaustert]

My unit does not have the inverter prep, even though GD website says it does have inverter prep setup. It also says the Transcend has an entire solar prep with no mention of solar panels installed. I ordered my trailer at the RV show in Pittsburgh in January and took delivery in mid-February. Mine is titled as a 2024 unit. My unit has a 180-watt solar panel and 40-amp Furrion solar controller installed. Apparently, I have an early "in between" model. Several other features on the updated website are not included on my unit. It seems GD was quite behind the times on website update for the Transcend line.

As far as looking for two wires on the breaker, that is my next step. Everything I have ever been told, learned and done with electricity has followed the theory of ONE WIRE PER BREAKER. But who knows what they did.

I haven't installed a transfer switch yet. Eventually, that may happen. In this case, since the trailer is "plugged into itself", the inverter can't supply power unless the 30-amp cord is plugged into it. Since there is only one 30-amp input on the outside, two power sources cannot be plugged in at the same time.

As for the inverter drawing more than the battery can handle, I have a 250-amp MRFB fuse on the busbar feeding the inverter. And the battery has a 200-amp BMS with a 300-amp MRFB fuse on the battery terminal. After I resolve this converter/GFCI issue, the converter will be turned off, and I won't be running the A/C while on inverter power. I don't anticipate any load issues.

[RBaustert]

Then how would you power the converter when needed? The converter will need power to operate when on shore power.

Brian

This is a manual process. Turn off the converter circuit when running on inverter power and turn it back on when on shore power. Guess that makes me the "transfer switch". The only downfall of forgetting to turn off the converter is that it will draw power to run, acting as a power parasite on the battery. Basically, the battery powering the converter, which is charging the battery. Loop-a-loop.

[ncitro]

As far as looking for two wires on the breaker, that is my next step. Everything I have ever been told, learned and done with electricity has followed the theory of ONE WIRE PER BREAKER. But who knows what they did.

This is sometimes true, but some breakers are rated for two wires. It depends on the rating.

[RBaustert]

As far as looking for two wires on the breaker, that is my next step. Everything I have ever been told, learned and done with electricity has followed the theory of ONE WIRE PER BREAKER. But who knows what they did.

Well, problem solved. The factory did wire two circuits to the breaker. It is a nice clean job, I will say that. I'm going to split this circuit into two and all should be good.

[Country Campers]

Shame, shame, shame on GD.

Brian

[ncitro]

Glad thats what it was. Should be easy to either switch that part of the circuit or move it to another breaker.

[RBaustert]

A quick update….split the wires onto two breakers. All worked as planned. I’ve been running the trailer for two days on the battery off the inverter as planned. All’s good for today.