New take on old GFCI issue, Solitude 390 RKR

[DarnDave]

We recently went to a work event trade show where there were dry RV spaces available. While staying there for three nights and days, we found that the GFCI main outlet in the bathroom, with the reset button, would start clicking loudly and flashing the red light with a steady yellow light about 20 minutes after starting the factory installed on board generator. This happened every time we started the generator. The only way the outlet would reset was to turn off the GFCI breaker on the inverter subpanel (unit is also equipped with the factory solar system, which includes a 2000W inverter and a subpanel), wait until genset was shut down, and then reset the breaker and outlet. It would then operate normally from the inverter until the next time the generator was started.

The generator starts making electricity to the coach about 45 seconds after it is started, but the GFCI issue would take between 20-25 minutes each time to surface.

Upon returning home, we verified issue still present. Works normally on shore power, including the Keurig.

We have previously written up the GFCI to the dealer because it would trip when running the genset, and trying to use the Keurig. Dealer could find nothing wrong, and claims that the Keurig worked for them. It has never worked for us. Can't help but wonder if the two are related. Will be contacting GD about this. Am soliciting thoughts or ideas, or anybody with similar issue. Diagnosis from my recliner points to something goofy in the transfer switch, or possibly at the genset itself.

TIA, Dave

[Country Campers]

I wonder if it is the GFCI slowly becoming faulty, these are not the best built receptacles with how the wires pass thru them and the connections is made by the " knife" type slicing thru the plastic wire coating.

When the GFCI is buzzing does it feel warm to the touch?

This however would not explain why it works on shore and inverter power, just a thought though.

Brian

[Jlawles2]

I might have the generator inspected for fluctuating voltage and frequency. Could be that the GFCI is sensing changes in voltage which in turn create an issue with the sensing circuitry.

On the flip side, also have them check the wiring and verify that the generator is bonded. Could be that the generator or transfer switch is not correctly setup and the neutral gets swapped with a ground (this creates havoc in a GFCI) when on Generator power. Even if bonded, the reversal is not good.

[Yoda]

Dave I don't know if I am reading your post correctly. Are you saying the breaker the GFIC is reset, or are you saying it is a GFIC breaker. If the later you cant have 2 GFIC outlets on the same circuit and have read here that wont work. Also is the inverter off when the gen is running? On thing - do you have an outlet tester? Possibly use that when you first fire up the generator to check the outlets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-Ge...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Just thinking out loud here
Keith

[howson]

DarnDave -- Jlawles2 thoughts about the generator's connections (when running) is a good suspect and what I'd pursue if troubleshooting the trailer.

Given how a GFCI works, it is sensing that the amperage flowing through the hot side is not the same amount flowing on the neutral side (thus some amperage is "leaking" out via the ground--it's got to be somewhere). When the GFCI senses an imbalance it opens. The imbalance can be very, very low (as it doesn't take much amperage to hurt a human by upsetting the heart's rhythm) thus many faults are considered to be a "nuisance fault" (but they are not--something is not right).

The best explanation of how a GFCI works that I've come across is Mike Sokol's. You can read it here: https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...8-gfci-theory/

Howard

[Scott'n'Wendy]

The issue must be the gen.
I'm with Joseph. Wondering if the on board gen is properly wired/bonded.
The part that bothers me about nailing down your problem is the 20-25 minutes you say it takes for this problem to arise. Could it be a heat issue? While probably out of your personal tool list, it would be nice to put a chart recorder on the O/P of your gen and see if it goes a little wonky after it heats up.
Is the gen well ventilated?
Not aware of your electrical knowledge/ability level, but if paying someone to look at it, change the GFCI before you do because it's cheap, easy to change and eliminates one variable.

[DarnDave]

Country Campers Jlawles2 Yoda howson and Scott'n'Wendy thanks to all for your input. There seems to be a bit of consensus with my recliner diagnosis! I think we are going to go ahead and change out the GFCI outlet, and see where that leads us. We are just out of warranty, but we reported the issue months ago during the first repair visit to the dealer, who as mentioned, found nothing.
After swapping the outlet, will get GD involved. Unit is still waiting for "in wall" slide mechanism parts that I think the dealer messed up on (..."they sent the wrong parts"...) and has to go back there anyway. They have a few new techs who seem to be pretty sharp.

To answer some of your questions: We didn't touch the outlet while it was clicking, unknown if it was warm. Used a wooden spoon handle to attempt a reset. It is not normally warm, however.
I keep a Hughes lcd voltage display plugged into a kitchen outlet (doubles as a night light). Displays a consistent 118 volts AC with generator running. Have not plugged it into the GFCI outlet, but I will. (Hadn't thought to before)
There is only one GFCI outlet with reset/test buttons. And there is only one main breaker labeled GFCI; it is on the inverter subpanel (is this what you meant, Keith?)
We leave the inverter on at all times except when we "store" the trailer. It has an automatic transfer/bypass when it sees shore or gen power. The switch is located in the basement area.
I do not have a tester although I have seen one used which trips the outlet (not this outlet--it was in the house). Is there a different kind which would tell me something different than the voltage display?
There does not seem to be any sort of venting to the generator. It is housed in a sheetmetal enclosure, with a seal at the forward edge which meets the access door. There are some openings on the bottom. As far as I know it is an air cooled unit. I would think that Cummins/Onan would have install parameters that the OEMs are supposed to follow. Nobody (other than Northwood) seems to put ventilation grills in the doors anymore. Keeps debris out I suppose.

TY for the reference, Howard. I will take a look. Having a hernia surgery in the AM so I might not be checking in for a little while.

Dave

[OffToHavasu]

Just for clarification, since you said you keep the inverter on all the time, Have you noticed it all while on shore power or is it ONLY the generator 120v causing the issue?

[DarnDave]

Only on the generator.

[Country Campers]

Only on the generator.

I would try running the generator and turning off the inverter. I think this is what Curtis OffToHavasu , is thinking as well.

Brian

[howson]

OffToHavasu -- I've read of issues where an inverter that has a built-in GFCI (all of them with standard outlets on them have built-in GFCI as I'm sure you know) will sometimes cause issues if wired to another GFCI circuit. Could this be the issue?

[OffToHavasu]

Country Campers howson I'm wondering if the inverter transfer switch is causing a problem. I saw somewhere someone else has an issue with the inverter and I'm wondering if that's the issue.

What would be interesting to see if if you press the "test" button on the bathroom GFCI to find it 6 which GFCI trips when on the inverter.

I'll test mine out in the next couple of days to see what mine will do. The inverter in ours is a GFCI outlet.

[DarnDave]

My bored father in law went out to the trailer today, and removed the outlet. I was surprised to see it was an Eaton, with real wire connections. This is consistent with the item in the parts lookup, except that it shows Cooper as the brand. Looks identical though.

[DarnDave]

I will have to check to see if we have a GFCI outlet in the main panel as well as the inverter subpanel. We haven't had to do anything on the inverter itself, only the bathroom outlet. Our inverter is a 2000watt magnum. Also working on checking for bonding at genset.

[Yoda]

I will have to check to see if we have a GFCI outlet in the main panel as well as the inverter subpanel. We haven't had to do anything on the inverter itself, only the bathroom outlet. Our inverter is a 2000watt magnum. Also working on checking for bonding at genset.

I noticed the label on the GFIC about not installing in wet or damp conditions - makes me wonder?
Also do you have a way to verify the transfer switch is working? It appears to be apart of the inverter.
Brainstorming here
Keith