Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Air Conditioner Failing?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Air Conditioner Failing?

    Question for the brain trust. I suspect I have a failing capacitor or some other unit in my main living room AC unit. It is a Dometic 15K, I think a Brisk. As most of you know my rig is far from stock. I am running a Victron Multiplus (original 3kva not the Type 2), and a Progressive Industries Hard Wired 50A EMS.

    The symptom is quite strange. In my shop I have a 50A outlet, as well as a bank of 20A. It is my office, so incoming power is three phase, and the voltage is rock solid. With both AC units going plugged into 50A The line is at 119V at the EMS. Unloaded its at 122, so it is not dropping much either. This week I have it plugged in via a dog bone to a 20A outlet, due to where I have it parked. It is mainly to keep my fridges running and batteries topped off, but my wife was over there yesterday and called me to ask if she could run the air. I have run it on the 20A outlets before without much issue (the Victron has PowerAssist, but it usually is not even needed). Just in case I had her video call me, checked my display and set the power assist to 15A (my L2 is not run through the inverter, so I usually understate the current to account for anything over there), and told her it should be fine. She called me back shortly saying the power had come out right after the compressor kicked on, then returned but died whenever the AC tried to start. She was almost done so we left it and I went over today to take a look.

    No errors on the EMS or MultiPlus. When set to 15A shore, the fan starts, then when the compressor pulls in the inverter switches to off. I watched the EMS and the voltage stays solid at 120 or so, and no errors or previous errors. In fact the EMS shows power is on the whole time the MultiPlus resets. I did some other testing, unplugged the rig and started the air and it started fine off the inverter. Set the shore power to 50A (so it would not try to assist) and the air started fine.

    All I can figure is at a setting of 15A shore power, its detecting the inrush from the AC and trying to assist and failing for some reason? This has never been an issue so far, although its uncommon for me to try to run the AC on 15A. I am surprised I am not getting a inverter overload error, and that it is just shutting down, especially given it can start the air on its own with no shore power connected at all. I am not running an Easy Start, I was going to, but when I did the install I found the inverter ran it fine with nothing so never got one. I am certainly not opposed to installing one, but again I am pretty sure this was never an issue before. Thats what makes me suspect the run capacitor on there? Our AC has a fair bit of use, we semi-full time in it, and we like the rig cool. Any ideas on testing the motor run capacitor or is it a troubleshoot by replacement?

    Sorry for the long post, but its a really odd situation. Particularly curious if you have ever seen anything like this in your setup howson
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    Neil Citro
    2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
    2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

  • #2
    Neil.

    Just to make sure, is your electric water heater turned off? Also, you might try shutting off the converter breaker while trying to start the AC. And is the refrigerator running on gas or electric?

    Jim
    Jim and Ginnie
    2024 Solitude 310GK - 2020 F350 Dually
    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
      Neil.

      Just to make sure, is your electric water heater turned off? Also, you might try shutting off the converter breaker while trying to start the AC. And is the refrigerator running on gas or electric?

      Jim
      Water heater is a Truma gas only, but it's off. Converter is disabled, I'm just using the Multiplus, and they're full so I can see there's only an amp going into them. Fridge is residential 115v drawing about an amp. Prior to starting the AC I can see I'm using 1A AC.

      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      Neil Citro
      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

      Comment


      • #4
        ncitro -- is AES unchecked on the Inverter tab? (It should be unchecked in our configuration due to the air conditioner and microwaves in our trailers.)

        I'm looking at VEConfig3 so not 100% sure what it looks like on VictronConnect. Cool thing about VEConfigure3 is you can download the Multiplus' configuration via the internet without bothering to plug in the MK3-USB adapter. Can upload changes, too!


        Click image for larger version  Name:	AES.JPG Views:	0 Size:	78.4 KB ID:	91003
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        Howard & Francine
        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by howson View Post
          ncitro -- is AES unchecked on the Inverter tab? (It should be unchecked in our configuration due to the air conditioner and microwaves in our trailers.)

          I'm looking at VEConfig3 so not 100% sure what it looks like on VictronConnect. Cool thing about VEConfigure3 is you can download the Multiplus' configuration via the internet without bothering to plug in the MK3-USB adapter. Can upload changes, too!


          Click image for larger version Name:	AES.JPG Views:	0 Size:	78.4 KB ID:	91003
          Nice, I did not know I could pull the config that way. VEConfig will not run on my Mac, but I have a PC I could remote into and installed it there. Confirmed it is disabled.
          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          Neil Citro
          2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
          2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

          Comment


          • #6
            ncitro -- is the air conditioner that was trying to start wired into L2 (not going through the inverter per the OP) or L1? I'm a little fuzzy on how the setup is wired. When a dogbone is used, L1 and L2 are "bridged", right, so it shouldn't matter what line the air conditioner is on?
            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            Howard & Francine
            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by howson View Post
              ncitro -- is the air conditioner that was trying to start wired into L2 (not going through the inverter per the OP) or L1? I'm a little fuzzy on how the setup is wired. When a dogbone is used, L1 and L2 are "bridged", right, so it shouldn't matter what line the air conditioner is on?
              That's right. This one is on L1, so I see it's current draw on my inverter display. I started my bedroom AC which is on L2 and ignored by the inverter and it ran fine. It's not quite apples to apples as that's a Coleman. I was toying with swapping them to see if it started fine going through the inverter, but was not sure if that would actually tell me anything.
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              Neil Citro
              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

              Comment


              • #8
                ncitro -- out of curiosity, please email the .vsc config file for your system. I'd like to compare it to mine. (On the road today--so response_review will take me a bit.
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                Howard & Francine
                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by howson View Post
                  ncitro -- out of curiosity, please email the .vsc config file for your system. I'd like to compare it to mine. (On the road today--so response_review will take me a bit.
                  No problem will do.

                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  Neil Citro
                  2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                  2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just searching through Victron Community threads and came across this https://community.victronenergy.com/...wer-limit.html

                    Not sure if it is relevant or not and it seems it has not been resolved.

                    Brian
                    Brian & Michelle
                    2018 Reflection 29RS
                    2022 Chevy 3500HD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                      Just searching through Victron Community threads and came across this https://community.victronenergy.com/...wer-limit.html

                      Not sure if it is relevant or not and it seems it has not been resolved.

                      Brian
                      Good thread, but not quite what I am seeing. What really gets me is I do not get any kind of error on the Cerbo, the Multiplus just turns off, and then eventually resets on its own. Also that it runs all those exact same loads fine if I disconnect the shore power, it only turns itself off if I have the shore power connected.
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      Neil Citro
                      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could it be the battery BMS shutting battery power down because of the large load applied quickly?

                        Brian

                        ​​​​​​​
                        Brian & Michelle
                        2018 Reflection 29RS
                        2022 Chevy 3500HD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                          Could it be the battery BMS shutting battery power down because of the large load applied quickly?

                          Brian
                          It's certainly possible, and that's on my mind, but then I'm surprised it'll work fine with shore power removed.
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          Neil Citro
                          2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                          2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I will yest tonight. I know the inverters are different but should perform the same.

                            Brian
                            Brian & Michelle
                            2018 Reflection 29RS
                            2022 Chevy 3500HD

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ncitro -- could it be the waveform is not as good on the 20A connection as the 50A? Do you have an oscilloscope that can verify what it looks like?

                              What you can try (as a test) is disable the UPS function. The text below (from an older Victron VEConnect manual) talks about a generator but I think it also applies to shore power. My guess is that incoming power quality affects all transfers, including power assist. There could be a difference in the 20A and 50A waveforms (which is undetectable by a DMM which shows "good" voltage). 1.1 Wave shape quality

                              UPS Function: (default = enabled) When the sine wave is of good quality, the Inverter of the MultiPlus will hook up on it, thus allowing a synchronised and fast transfer when the generator stops.
                              Many generators have more or less ill-shaped sine waves, in particular during sudden load changes. In these situations, the MultiPlus will disconnect frequently or not connect at all. The UPS function must then be deactivated. The drawback is a slightly longer transfer time.

                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              Howard & Francine
                              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X