Suggestions for upgrades to include with axle replacement

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Thanks! I used a link generated by the Android Amazon app. From now on I will use the URL from the web page. I see now that these are for 33 inch axle centers, mine are 35 inch.

These are for 35 inch axle centers: https://www.amazon.com/Dexter-K71-65..._t1_B01HOAGBSI

That is the kit I installed. I second Yoda's opinion. Give them a call. They gave me very good pricing over the phone-better than I could find elsewhere, BUT, I was buying a pair of 6K axles from them at the time as well. So maybe it the pkg that made for the better price?

[Guest]

In trailer suspension, all you can really look at is the durability of the parts. To claim that you can "feel" a change in the trailer suspension from the driver's seat of the truck is more wishful thinking than anything else. Now . . . if someone comes forward with before-and-after accelerometer data, that would be a different discussion. I have changed many things in the suspension of my trailer. Different equalizers up to LCI's airbag version. Different springs and sumo springs. I seriously considered shock absorbers (dampers) so my wife recorded a video in her mirror of the side of the trailer while traveling different road surfaces. Dampers control rebound after the jounce input. This is not happening (that I could see in the video) and seems to be controlled by the equalizer. I would need some real data before drilling significant size holes in the lower flange of my frame I beams to attach dampers.

Fully independent trailer suspension . . . either the MorRyde version or slipper springs has possibilities that I have not explored. I can see where these systems would need dampers.

Rob

I'm with you on the measuring aspect of quantifying Rob. But some folks are pretty good at what we called our assometer in calibration to pick up drive issues. We also measured with engineering grade tools such as AVL Drive and Etas Inca.

My Imagine is underdamped from video I captured underneath. I doubt I would have seen it from the cab since the truck and trailer were moving in unison but it can be seen when comparing the camera (mounted to the bumper) and relative to the axles. The Imagine is an Underdamped system.
Somewhere on the forum is a video I posted that shows pre and post install of the road master system and the video before the install shows an undamped system with several periods noted.

Its also funny how some makers list their test data showing how their design is superior at a single frequency. All they did was find a sweet spot to compare their product.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

Guest Hi Jim,

I am very familiar with assometer concept, LOL . . . but, that part of your anatomy has to be in the vehicle being evaluated. Judging trailer ride improvements from the driver's seat in the truck is a "stretch of the concept" at best.

Since we are going down this rabbit hole . . . my new truck came with a camera to be mounted on the back of the trailer. I decided that I was more interested in the trailer suspension, so I mounted this camera under the trailer. I can watch suspension and trailer motion on the 12" screen in the truck while driving. ( I'm "pretty sure" that my trailer does not need additional suspension damping )

Rob

[Guest]

Guest Hi Jim,

I am very familiar with assometer concept, LOL . . . but, that part of your anatomy has to be in the vehicle being evaluated. Judging trailer ride improvements from the driver's seat in the truck is a "stretch of the concept" at best.

Since we are going down this rabbit hole . . . my new truck came with a camera to be mounted on the back of the trailer. I decided that I was more interested in the trailer suspension, so I mounted this camera under the trailer. I can watch suspension and trailer motion on the 12" screen in the truck while driving. ( I'm "pretty sure" that my trailer does not need additional suspension damping )

Rob

Could be your loaded heavy enough where mass is providing enough damping. I know you know this principal. But my Imagine is Underdamped where I can tell when its on the truck even though it tows well.

Here is the Roadmaster video at 47s it shows just how bad these Ben Hur systems are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZQXypIqZmU

Jim

[Yoda]

In trailer suspension, all you can really look at is the durability of the parts. To claim that you can "feel" a change in the trailer suspension from the driver's seat of the truck is more wishful thinking than anything else. Now . . . if someone comes forward with before-and-after accelerometer data, that would be a different discussion. I have changed many things in the suspension of my trailer. Different equalizers up to LCI's airbag version. Different springs and sumo springs. I seriously considered shock absorbers (dampers) so my wife recorded a video in her mirror of the side of the trailer while traveling different road surfaces. Dampers control rebound after the jounce input. This is not happening (that I could see in the video) and seems to be controlled by the equalizer. I would need some real data before drilling significant size holes in the lower flange of my frame I beams to attach dampers.

Fully independent trailer suspension . . . either the MorRyde version or slipper springs has possibilities that I have not explored. I can see where these systems would need dampers.

Rob

Rob - you make a good point. Perception can vary with the individual based on experience. One point I would like to make is after I installed the sumo springs I noticed a big improvement with the trailer bounce - especially side to side on rough roads. That translated to a smoother ride as the king pin was not influencing the truck as much.

This is just a thought. it would be great to have instrumentation on a lot of our improvements or the actual suspension data as designed as a base number, but that is probably a dream.

With teck improving I am sure someday there will be portable systems to give us an answer. Through my engineering carrier I learned to trust my gut and sometimes seat of the pants feel driving roads for safety, even though the bank indicator said it was good, but the accident data was mixed. When it just does not feel right, dig in and find the answer.

Just my thought on this

Keith

[Guest]

Here is a system that may provide enough accuracy for an A to B comparison. This is far from the lab grade Kistler sensors we used in the auto industry but it may be good enough for our purposes. This looks like a nice tool option for Yoda.

https://www.amazon.com/WT901BLECL-Ac...s%2C84&sr=8-20


Jim

[Scott'n'Wendy]

my new truck came with a camera to be mounted on the back of the trailer. I decided that I was more interested in the trailer suspension

When diagnosing high speed machinery malfunctions at work I used to take videos and then go back to my desk to dissect. More than once I got a less informed but higher up management person complain I was just leaving and I should stay and determine the problem. Video can be a powerful tool.
Cate&Rob Did you remove the sumo springs?

[Jlawles2]

Might be interesting to use one of the GoPro cameras with the telemetry sensors. All that data is stored with the video: (snagged this info from a website)

These cameras contain GPS, accelerometer, gyroscope, ISO, shutter speed and more data: HERO11, HERO10, HERO9, HERO8, HERO7 Black, HERO7 Silver, HERO6 Black, HERO5 Black, Max and Fusion.

These cameras contain accelerometer, gyroscope and in some cases camera settings: HERO5 Session and HERO7 White.

[Cate&Rob]

Scott'n'Wendy

I am running the Sumo springs. The trailer does seem to be riding more comfortably, but I upgraded to the LCI Centerpoint airbag equalizer, added the Sumos and upgraded to a much better B&W hitch in the truck . . . all at the same time. So, I can't tell how much of the towing improvement is due to what. Time will tell if this new system is more durable than the original. The Sumo springs are (in part) the safety jounce bumpers for the airbag equalizer. I like the concept of this equalizer, but am not sure what would happen if I were to lose air pressure in this system while towing. Probably the most noticeable thing about the Sumos is that the trailer is more stable when parked. (In the picture, the plastic bags are to keep my disc brakes from rusting. The various height blocking under the jack stands bring my otherwise sloped driveway to exactly level under the trailer )

Rob

[Jlawles2]

Cate&Rob Rob, looking at the geometry of the LCI system, it appears that the pivot points for the spring shackles are more in line, but I'm guessing that with the air bag there is no center pivot.

It would be extremely interesting if someone could design a center equalizer with all 3 connections in line. This in theory should make it closer to a slipper spring system.

[COReflection]

Scott'n'Wendy

I am running the Sumo springs. The trailer does seem to be riding more comfortably, but I upgraded to the LCI Centerpoint airbag equalizer, added the Sumos and upgraded to a much better B&W hitch in the truck . . . all at the same time. So, I can't tell how much of the towing improvement is due to what. Time will tell if this new system is more durable than the original. The Sumo springs are (in part) the safety jounce bumpers for the airbag equalizer. I like the concept of this equalizer, but am not sure what would happen if I were to lose air pressure in this system while towing. Probably the most noticeable thing about the Sumos is that the trailer is more stable when parked. (In the picture, the plastic bags are to keep my disc brakes from rusting. The various height blocking under the jack stands bring my otherwise sloped driveway to exactly level under the trailer )

Rob

Rob----an observation……as a person who’s pulled campers for a long time and one who is always looking for the best and most practical upgrades….I’m surprised to see a truck hitch upgrade, and suspension upgrades on the RV, yet you are still using, what appears from the picture, as the standard pin box. Normally I’m seeing that people tackle this upgrade first as it provides allot of bang for the buck to start with related to chucking, jouncing, and overall camper/truck ride. Then they go to hitch changes followed by RV suspension upgrades. I know I have personally experienced allot of value with tackling that upgrade first and then I add the truck air bags, a good hitch, then pick your favorite RV equalizer spring dampener system, then shocks or sumo springs (if desired).

I just recently acquired a very lightly used Lippert Air pin box from Craigslist here in CO. I’ve already swapped that out and believe it will work great in combination with my truck air bags. I also just ordered the Roadmaster Comfortride Shock Kit and will be installing that to compliment the MORryde CRE3000 system already on the Reflection. Last weekend, I installed this same shock system on my friend’s Cougar and he is very impressed with how the camper no longer bounces over bumps and his contents in the camper are much more stable during towing. His opinion was an immediate change in the pulling and towing characteristics the moment he left my driveway. I don’t know anything about the sumo springs but they look allot like the Timbrens that can be installed on the tow vehicle. I tried those on my last truck for one weekend camping trip and immediately removed them and sent them back. Switched to the air bags with onboard compressor and even my wife noticed a difference immediately with the bags. From my experience and IMHO, many of these upgrades provide a cumulative change when aggregated together rather than picking and choosing one or two individually.

Dave

[Scott'n'Wendy]

looking at the geometry of the LCI system, it appears that the pivot points for the spring shackles are more in line,

Looks like a lot of lever arm in that design.

[Cate&Rob]

COReflection Hi Dave,

Good input . . . there are lots of ways to spend money on improving the suspension of the trailer and the truck and the connection between the two. I never really experienced a significant chucking between the two, so have not gone to the cushioned pinbox . . . although, it is on the list. This would isolate the trailer from the truck, but would not do anything to improve the ride of the trailer. I did run airbags on the F150 HDPP when I was towing with that truck, but these do not seem necessary with the F350. I had a long discussion at a Rally with the designer of the Roadmaster Shock kit . . . and decided that I would not pursue these . . . as you say, there are many opinions.

Rob

[Scott'n'Wendy]

[FONT=Calibri]Normally I’m seeing that people tackle this upgrade first as it provides allot of bang for the buck to start with related to chucking, jouncing, and overall camper/truck ride.

I find chucking and jouncing more related to proper loading of the trailer. When I first started trailering in the 90's I experienced bad chucking etc until I understood more about pin weight. Since then I load rather front heavy and chucking is a thing of the past for me. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing..lol

[Cate&Rob]

Jlawles2 Scott'n'Wendy

The CenterPoint equalizer is sort of like a "semi independent" suspension. The single centre equalizer attachment is divided so that each spring has its own shackle attachment but the load is still shared from one to the other through an airbag. The airbag seems to absorb small road inputs without disturbing the other axle but still shares load with the other spring on large road inputs. Much like the rubber cushion in some equalizers, but with more compliance and adjustable by changing air pressure.

Of course . . . fitting this to an RV with underbelly coroplast was not as easy as the instructions would have you believe. I had to create raised sections in the coroplast (picture 3) to clear the airbags. Then I had to make modifications to the CenterPoint arm where it attaches to the hanger, to clear the V Clip reinforcements that I did not want to remove. Nothing is ever as easy as it is described in the sales literature .

All considered, I am pleased with this system . . . but, not being one who can ever leave anything alone, I would like to be able to run different pressures in each airbag to correspond to the side-to-side weight difference in a 303. Currently both bags run at the same pressure. I can see that mod coming next .

Rob