I want to know why there are so many bent axles

[Trollst]

My Imagine 2600 RB is a 2018, has exactly 52 road hours on it, that equates to very few miles. I bought it new, the springs went flat just after the first trip, about 15 hours travel time, spoke with Grand Design and they promptly sent me four new springs and all the hardware to install. I had 3500 lb axles and springs, the replacements were 4400 lb springs, and three inch hardware, at this point the axles were fine.
Loaded up the next spring, gone about thirty miles and discovered a bent axle in the rear, more calls to Grand Design, they suggested I deal with Dexter axle, the last time I tried to deal with them was a fiasco, they wanted me to ship the springs across the country so they could examine the failure, would have left my trailer on blocks for months and cost more to ship than the springs cost new. I wasn't about to play that game again.
Contacted a well known trailer manufacturer here and $3600 later a new suspension including tires holds up my imagine now. I've owned this trailer two years, got 52 traveling hours on it and it has had a catastrophic suspension failure, my previous Cougar 244 we had for thirteen years, been into every backwood corner you could imagine, and never so much as had a squeek out of it.
So....I do a little research, discover to my amazement that this is more common than uncommon, yet I don't see a technical service advisement from GD, never mind a recall, nowhere do I see any admittance of a design problem, which there very clearly is.
I still like this trailer, I hope it's my last unit, but I'm not impressed with the build quality I'm supposed to have bought.

[TucsonJim]

First of all, welcome to the technical forum. We hope this place will be helpful to you.

This topic is the proverbial "can of worms". There are so many reasons for misaligned axles.

1. Incorrect application. I've seen this from multiple manufacturers They try and get by with the lightest axle they can to meet the GVWR. And if they put too heavy a spring/axle on the rig, then the road shock can damage components inside the RV.
2. Overloading. You'd be surprised how much weight some folks put on them.
3. Curbing an axle. A tire may have hit a curb on an axle. And it may have happened by the delivery driver or moving it around on the dealer's lot before the trailer is even sold.
4. Manufacturing Defect. I had a Lippert axle that came from the factory with the spindle out of alignment with the axle shaft. That sure scrubbed off one of my tires quicly.
5. Defective or inferior materials. We've seen collapsed springs similar to what you've encounted may times. It can easily be because the material used was defective.

I've been a GDRV owner for 6-1/2 years and very active in the related forums during that time. This can be a hot topic where there's lots of ideas bandied about. You should see how long one of the posts is related to broken spring hangers for instance!

Once again, welcome, and we hope you enjoy participating here.

Jim

[Trollst]

Thanks for the welcome, much appreciated. My background is as follows.....I'm 65, owned rv's most of my adult life, have been building hot rods and custom motorcycles for forty years. I'm not one of those guys wondering what happened, I run my own business, based on word of mouth, and I've done well, and I know what happened here.
I bought my cougar because of Keystone's reputation in 2005, and I wasn't disappointed in the 13 years of ownership, I then followed the group to GD based on my own experience, bought from them again expecting the same quality.
These units are built to a bare minimum,, I'm not blaming Dexter, Lippert, or the component makers, I'm blaming the people who engineered the thing to a bare minimum. I bought my cougar because it was overbuilt, heavy components under a huge I beam frame, that never let me down, now I have a trailer that has just enough frame, just enough suspension, in the name of a quality product.
Mine was not overloaded, the first trip was the tow home from northern alberta, the axle bending trip was a full tank of water to a destination 100 miles from home.
I'm not griping, it's fixed now that it'll never give me issues, the way it should have come from the factory.

[Country Campers]

Trollst

You make very good points that can not be argued with. They sure do not build anything like they use too.

Brian

[d2reid]

My Imagine 2600 RB is a 2018, has exactly 52 road hours on it, that equates to very few miles. I bought it new, the springs went flat just after the first trip, about 15 hours travel time, spoke with Grand Design and they promptly sent me four new springs and all the hardware to install. I had 3500 lb axles and springs, the replacements were 4400 lb springs, and three inch hardware, at this point the axles were fine.
Loaded up the next spring, gone about thirty miles and discovered a bent axle in the rear, more calls to Grand Design, they suggested I deal with Dexter axle, the last time I tried to deal with them was a fiasco, they wanted me to ship the springs across the country so they could examine the failure, would have left my trailer on blocks for months and cost more to ship than the springs cost new. I wasn't about to play that game again.
Contacted a well known trailer manufacturer here and $3600 later a new suspension including tires holds up my imagine now. I've owned this trailer two years, got 52 traveling hours on it and it has had a catastrophic suspension failure, my previous Cougar 244 we had for thirteen years, been into every backwood corner you could imagine, and never so much as had a squeek out of it.
So....I do a little research, discover to my amazement that this is more common than uncommon, yet I don't see a technical service advisement from GD, never mind a recall, nowhere do I see any admittance of a design problem, which there very clearly is.
I still like this trailer, I hope it's my last unit, but I'm not impressed with the build quality I'm supposed to have bought.

I know your frustration. My 2008 Cedar Creek kept blowing the right front tire. LCI and Forest River replaced the axles, hubs, springs, twice. Didn't fix it. I finally ended up in TX at the Escapees place that does individual wheel weights, found out that right front tire was carrying 500 pounds more than the other three. It didn't make any sense, I couldn't find anyone, FR, LCI, my dealer, trailer repair shops, Mor-Ryde, nobody could figure out why. $6000 later I have a whole new beefed up suspension and never had another problem the rest of the time I owned it.

And I hear it all, your overweight, you hit a curb, you are driving too fast... frustrating.

[Guest]

Made in China.

Anyone that has heard of quality creep knows we should be having the critical items made here and under stringent quality control. I would gladly pay more for springs, bearings, axles, hubs and brakes made from domestic steel. The rest is Ok to import if specifications are kept in check..

Jim

[315RLTSinPA]

I feel your pain. I just spent $3200 for a complete suspension upgrade. Upgraded from 5200# axles to 7000# axles. The place I bought the axles from said LCI uses a soft steel in their axles. They said they replace a lot of them. Also told me some axles are 3/16 steel, some are 1/4 steel, and the ones I got are 5/16 steel. So not all axles are created equal. 1 of the 7000# axles weighed about the same as both 5200# axles.

[mpking]

I feel your pain. I just spent $3200 for a complete suspension upgrade. Upgraded from 5200# axles to 7000# axles. The place I bought the axles from said LCI uses a soft steel in their axles. They said they replace a lot of them. Also told me some axles are 3/16 steel, some are 1/4 steel, and the ones I got are 5/16 steel. So not all axles are created equal. 1 of the 7000# axles weighed about the same as both 5200# axles.

What kind of place did you find to do that kind of work? Right now, the only place I could think of is the Dealer I bought it from, and I'd imagine they would just replace with OEM parts.

TucsonJim You should ask if you could have a location added to the left hand side of the forum display. Either State, or State and Town. (or Full Time) Sometimes it helps knowing where people are.

[ncitro]

What kind of place did you find to do that kind of work? Right now, the only place I could think of is the Dealer I bought it from, and I'd imagine they would just replace with OEM parts.

TucsonJim You should ask if you could have a location added to the left hand side of the forum display. Either State, or State and Town. (or Full Time) Sometimes it helps knowing where people are.

I have done all my own work on mine so far, but near me there is a trailer shop that sells heavy duty construction and horse trailers, as well as everything else. I would go with them or a heavy truck service center for semis. I would personally not go to the dealer for axle work lol. Oh there also is a suspension shop near me that I went to for some parts when I lowered the rear end of my F350, I am sure they would do it too.

[Cate&Rob]

I feel your pain. I just spent $3200 for a complete suspension upgrade. Upgraded from 5200# axles to 7000# axles. The place I bought the axles from said LCI uses a soft steel in their axles. They said they replace a lot of them. Also told me some axles are 3/16 steel, some are 1/4 steel, and the ones I got are 5/16 steel. So not all axles are created equal. 1 of the 7000# axles weighed about the same as both 5200# axles.

You are correct that lighter capacity axles weigh considerably less. This is not just about saving money on materials. "Unsprung weight" is a big consideration in any suspension design (even 1950s technology beam axle trailers ). Heavier is not necessarily always better. Think about the money auto and truck manufacturers spend on aluminum and even magnesium suspension components to save every possible ounce of unsprung weight. As I have commented before, an ideal suspension should use all of its design travel to absorb road impacts so that these are not transmitted to the body. Unsprung weight has a lot to do with the responsiveness of the suspension to be able to do this. A suspension (or upgraded tires) over strengthened for the weight of the trailer means that everything in the trailer gets a rougher ride.

I can't disagree with your comment that the RV manufacturers sometimes cut this too fine and use suspension and axles that barely meets the requirements. Those who have followed my posts will know that I went through a lot of effort to match the springs to the different side-to-side load carried by the suspension on my Reflection. I am not particularly an LCI proponent, but I have never heard the "LCI uses soft steel" comment.

Back to the earlier question by mpking
. . . an RV dealer is absolutely not the place to take you trailer for suspension improvements. A place specializing in trailer fabrication (of any kind) or trailer suspension repair, would be a far better choice. Just don't let them talk you into strengthening the suspension and increasing the axle capacity beyond what the weight of your trailer really needs.

Rob

[fraserfamily]

Made in China.

Anyone that has heard of quality creep knows we should be having the critical items made here and under stringent quality control. I would gladly pay more for springs, bearings, axles, hubs and brakes made from domestic steel. The rest is Ok to import if specifications are kept in check..

Jim

Ah yes, the old "Made in China" canard makes an appearance. Notwithstanding that parts sourced from anywhere are manufactured to the specification provided to them by the customer.

Except Lippert and Dexter axles are all manufactured in the United States.

Carry on.

[Schiefswret]

My Imagine 2600 RB is a 2018, has exactly 52 road hours on it, that equates to very few miles. I bought it new, the springs went flat just after the first trip, about 15 hours travel time, spoke with Grand Design and they promptly sent me four new springs and all the hardware to install. I had 3500 lb axles and springs, the replacements were 4400 lb springs, and three inch hardware, at this point the axles were fine.
Loaded up the next spring, gone about thirty miles and discovered a bent axle in the rear, more calls to Grand Design, they suggested I deal with Dexter axle, the last time I tried to deal with them was a fiasco, they wanted me to ship the springs across the country so they could examine the failure, would have left my trailer on blocks for months and cost more to ship than the springs cost new. I wasn't about to play that game again.
Contacted a well known trailer manufacturer here and $3600 later a new suspension including tires holds up my imagine now. I've owned this trailer two years, got 52 traveling hours on it and it has had a catastrophic suspension failure, my previous Cougar 244 we had for thirteen years, been into every backwood corner you could imagine, and never so much as had a squeek out of it.
So....I do a little research, discover to my amazement that this is more common than uncommon, yet I don't see a technical service advisement from GD, never mind a recall, nowhere do I see any admittance of a design problem, which there very clearly is.
I still like this trailer, I hope it's my last unit, but I'm not impressed with the build quality I'm supposed to have bought.

Couple of years ago I was in Elkhart with my previous rig, 2018 Heartland Pioneer. Very long story short I contacted Dexter with my bent axle problem. Took the rig the 6 miles to the Dexter folks. They replaced the entire suspension, except the tires, including brakes, etc, etc. under their 5 year warranty. The Service Manager has been there something like 40 years and she was nothing short of Phenomenal in every sense of the word. As soon as I bought my GD 2250RK I immediately switched to GY Endurance Tires and added the Dexter Easy Flex Suspension upgrade. So far I’m a happy camper.

[315RLTSinPA]

What kind of place did you find to do that kind of work? Right now, the only place I could think of is the Dealer I bought it from, and I'd imagine they would just replace with OEM parts.

I actually bought all the parts and my auto mechanic did the work. The axles and springs were bought from a company that specializes in trailer suspensions. I would have had them do the work, but they couldn't schedule me in before we were leaving for our next trip.

Rob, they told me that LCI used a softer grade steel than Dexter. Even though they recommended the 7000# axles, they matched the springs closer to the gvwr of the trailer so as not to have a harsh ride. While the original springs where rated less than the gvwr of the trailer, the new ones are slightly above the gvwr with the difference of heavier springs for the extra weight of the street side. The original springs on the street side had lost their arch.

[Cate&Rob]

315RLTSinPA
That is a well thought out plan . . . I expect that your new suspension will be a much better match to your trailer, than the original.

For others . . . on the topic of "springs losing their arch" . . . this is definitely an indication of an overloaded suspension, but can be difficult to judge by eye. Springs that look to be too flat are sometimes still within spec. See post 5 and its attachments https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...imum-clearance for a way to definitively measure the loaded spring arch on your trailer to know for sure whether your springs are overloaded.

Rob

[Guest]

Ah yes, the old "Made in China" canard makes an appearance. Notwithstanding that parts sourced from anywhere are manufactured to the specification provided to them by the customer.

Except Lippert and Dexter axles are all manufactured in the United States.

Carry on.

I work with folks from all over the world so I know a bit about what happens when someone makes changes while thinking they saved on cost and kept the product quality in check. It rarely works. If you work on your suspension and buy new parts, let us know what is printed on them for the origin of manufacture. Lippert and Dexter are assembled in the USA.

Jim