Tire Wear / Bad Axle

[ncitro]

Question for the forum. I have substantial outside wear on my front passenger tire (photo of both passenger side tires below for comparison). I replaced all four with Good Year Endurance tires last summer, they have around 10,000 miles on them. I have Lippert 5200 pound axles. I broke a rear drivers side spring hanger a few years ago. My buddy is an ironworker and we welded and boxed in the hangers after that. I have upgraded my shackles and equalizers to the MorRyde SRE4000 and heavy duty shackles with the crossbar. I generally find it tows fine. I am going to weigh on the way home, but I had it done at the national rally last year and my wheel weights were all similar, and I was right at the GVRW of the rig. I have done some mods since then and would bet I am probably running a bit over.





I am assuming I have bent my front axle, probably the spindle since the other side is wearing normally (no photo as its buried under my slideout at the moment). For background, we are not really looking to trade rigs in the near future, but thinking a Solitude (maybe the new 378 mid bunk) in 2-3 years, but we do put on a lot of miles, 10,000 per year seems average, and in the life of this rig we are thinking we will do Alaska.

Looks like I have three options and I know some on here have done at least some of these so I am curious on peoples thoughts. In no particular order:

I could just replace the axle, I would think with a Dexter 6,000 pound axle. My ironworker buddy seems to think I would not necessarily need to replace both, it should not matter that the capacities are different. Another option would be to change both obviously, which I may do since we would have it tore apart anyway.

Related to that, I could also take this opportunity to upgrade to 16" wheels and tires. I run a Goosebox now with 7" of clearance, but got into a nasty site a couple months ago and had the rig come down on the bed. Very minor damage to both, but has me thinking I would like more clearance. B&W makes a raised gooseball, but I would be off level then, so the bigger tires would help with that, and give me some more weight capacity. I realize other components would then be my "weak link", and nothing will change my GVRW, but at least I would have faith in my tires and axles. I do already have the 2" spacers between the frame and axles, so 16" tires should be no issue.

The other option would be to go with the MorRyde IS with disc brakes, it is a pricy option, but those that have it seem to love it. I think howson had an issue with alignment, which sounded like a pain to deal with, but did end up being covered, so at least resolved. In this case I would definitely make the move to 16" wheels and tires, and probably 8 stud wheels at that, so that is going to add to the cost even more. I am working up a spreadsheet, but since I can do the axle swap myself, even if I decided to do disk brakes as well it will probably be about double to go the MorRyde route, but that is obviously an IS vs staying with leaf springs.

I guess my questions are twofold, first and most obviously does everyone agree that tire wear is a bent axle. Pressure is good, 75 all around, and bearing temps are good. I replaced all of the with Timkins when I replaced the tires, they are due to be repacked after this trip, which would be part of the axle work, but I do not think they are my issue.

Second if we agree its an axle issue, what are peoples thoughts on the IS particularly for my fairly light fifth wheel.

Thanks everyone!

[steve gravelle]

Go to a truck alignment center with Hunter equipment and verify the issue with the axle. Total toe of the axle should be close to 0.00 inches or degrees, and camber should be somewhat positive, top of tire tilted out, somewhere around 0.5 degrees. Worked for Hunter about 15 years, and worked with their equipment another 15. Neil, certainly applaud you taking the repair yourself with experienced help! The difference in axles should you replace only one does not raise a red flag, IMHO. Raising the axles is a good move too. The Mor Ryde idea is great. As I am sure you know, any upgrades you do probably won't help when you upgrade to a Solitude unless you find a buyer that is willing to pay for the value you added.

[ncitro]

Go to a truck alignment center with Hunter equipment and verify the issue with the axle. Total toe of the axle should be close to 0.00 inches or degrees, and camber should be somewhat positive, top of tire tilted out, somewhere around 0.5 degrees. Worked for Hunter about 15 years, and worked with their equipment another 15. Neil, certainly applaud you taking the repair yourself with experienced help! The difference in axles should you replace only one does not raise a red flag, IMHO. Raising the axles is a good move too. The Mor Ryde idea is great. As I am sure you know, any upgrades you do probably won't help when you upgrade to a Solitude unless you find a buyer that is willing to pay for the value you added.

Yeah I hear you on the resale, and that’s what has me thinking of shipping the IS and doing that on the next rig. The other part of me says who knows when that will be and why not enjoy it now. Especially if we are going to do Alaska on this rig.

I had thought of taking it to a shop to check the alignment, but figured it most likely had to be the axle as there is no real alignment to do, so why pay them to tell me I need to replace it anyway. I might take it and have it checked once I replace the axle in case anything on the new suspension can be adjusted, but from what it looks like there’s no real adjustment short of cutting off the spring mount and welding them somewhere else (no correct track on my rig).

[howson]

TucsonJim has had multiple experiences with bent axles--he should be along soon with a comment.

I haven't read of one person that went with disc brakes that regretted the change. Well worth it IMO.

[Cate&Rob]

ncitro steve gravelle

Hi Neil,

I would second Steve’s approach to this. Start with a quality alignment analysis before buying axles or other parts. Agreed that a bent spindle is the “most likely” cause of the tire wear, but there could be other causes. This wear could be toe or camber.

Rob

[315RLTSinPA]

Neil
I just went through this this year. I went with 7k axles, new springs, 16" wheels and tires, MorRyde cre3000, and disc brakes. When I talked to the place I bought the axles, they recommended skipping the 6k axles and go right to 7k axles, but only 6k springs.
You can swap your brakes, drums, and bearings right to the new axles. If you want to go to 8 lug, you will need new brakes, drums, and bearings. If you need to buy new brakes, drums, and bearings it isn't much more to go with disc brakes.

[howson]

ncitro -- tagging you to ensure you don't miss post #6 from 315RLTSinPA . Good info!

[ncitro]

ncitro -- tagging you to ensure you don't miss post #6 from 315RLTSinPA . Good info!

315RLTSinPA
Thanks everyone, good info for sure. I’ve been making my way back home and haven’t had a chance to respond. I went through a scale today, and need to run some numbers but it looks like we’re running about 1500 pounds over the GVRW, and more concerningly I’m about 80 pounds over on each axle, but I’m below my 15” tire weight ratings. I’ve got 780 pounds to spare over all four tires, so seems like the debate would be whether to make the move to 8 lug wheels when I do the 7k axle (thanks for the heads up, looks like the 7k is actually little cheaper) and do disc brakes or keep my 15” wheels and tires.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but I’m thinking we’ll skip the IS for now. Since I’ll have no labor cost to do regular axles myself.

[ncitro]

Anyone have any experience with the Timbren Axle-Less axles? Seem pretty strongly recommended at etrailer, and would create an independent suspension. Off the top of my head I would think the issue would be getting it all aligned, hoping that the frame is perfectly straight, although they provide shims to adjust toe and camber.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lea...TASR7KS01.html

[Country Campers]

Neil

If you are thinking of a Solitude in the future I would go the easiest best cheapest route to get the job done , 7k or 8k axels I think would fit this bill. The Timbren set up looks like there would need to be some fabricating or stiffening of the frame to support this.
The tire wear you have pictured has me curious as to how this happened. Outside wear would have to come from toe in , which would mean the axel or spindle was bent towards the front of the RV , how does that happen? It could also mean the spindle was bent down or the axel tube was bent up , how does that happen and only effect one side? Having basically the same set up as you I am concerned that this problem may haunt me at some time although we do not travel as far or as much as you do so I may be safe for a longer time period.

Brian

[ncitro]

Neil

If you are thinking of a Solitude in the future I would go the easiest best cheapest route to get the job done , 7k or 8k axels I think would fit this bill. The Timbren set up looks like there would need to be some fabricating or stiffening of the frame to support this.
The tire wear you have pictured has me curious as to how this happened. Outside wear would have to come from toe in , which would mean the axel or spindle was bent towards the front of the RV , how does that happen? It could also mean the spindle was bent down or the axel tube was bent up , how does that happen and only effect one side? Having basically the same set up as you I am concerned that this problem may haunt me at some time although we do not travel as far or as much as you do so I may be safe for a longer time period.

Brian

This is kind of my leaning too. We talked today some about upgrading rigs, but we’ve heavily modified the one we have. I would probably pull the solar, inverter, and lithium batteries to move to the new rig since we would never recoup that cost, and it’s easy enough to do, but we’ve totally remade the bunkhouse to be a toddler bed and play area for our two year old. It works really well for us, but I think it might turn off a potential buyer or at least take a while to sell. All that on top of what a Solitude would cost us (I’d order with 8k axles and probably full body paint which would make it even more). Plus it would mean moving to a 450 foot what we would want. We pretty much decided we are 2-5 years from those purchases.

That’s being the case as much as I would like to abandon the leaf springs entirely and be rid of that problem I think you’re right and the best option would be the 7k axles and keep the wheels and tires I have.

As for what happened, that’s the rub isn’t it. I had figured it was from pulling it over a curb or something. I’ma pretty careful driver, but have on occasion had to go over one in a parking lot, to say nothing of a pot hole or something. But you’re right about the direction of the bend. It can’t be from overweight either (not that I thought that because of which wheel it was), because that would be the other direction too. Maybe I should do the alignment check mentioned above just to find out.

[ncitro]

Well I stand corrected. Got back home Tuesday and had a chance to look at things with my buddy. He also agreed it was strange the wear was on the outside, and suggested we pull the bearings. Sure enough jacked it up and wheel had some slop to it. Pulled the bearings out and could see there had been some water intrusion where some of the grease was discolored, and the bearings had a bit of coloration to them from getting hot. We replaced them all with new Timken bearings and races last June, all we can figure is one of the seals failed and water got in somehow. New bearings and seals on the way, should be here Sunday and then we will see. Sure beats changing the axle though.

[Calbar]

Well I stand corrected. Got back home Tuesday and had a chance to look at things with my buddy. He also agreed it was strange the wear was on the outside, and suggested we pull the bearings. Sure enough jacked it up and wheel had some slop to it. Pulled the bearings out and could see there had been some water intrusion where some of the grease was discolored, and the bearings had a bit of coloration to them from getting hot. We replaced them all with new Timken bearings and races last June, all we can figure is one of the seals failed and water got in somehow. New bearings and seals on the way, should be here Sunday and then we will see. Sure beats changing the axle though.

I had something similar a couple of years ago. Notice one of my tires wearing funny. Thought it was a belt shifting or something with the tire. Tire dealer said tire was fine. Jacked up the trailer and wheel play was sloppy. Outer bearing was shot. Roller pretty much fell out of the cage. New bearings and repack and all was good.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

Well I stand corrected. Got back home Tuesday and had a chance to look at things with my buddy. He also agreed it was strange the wear was on the outside, and suggested we pull the bearings. Sure enough jacked it up and wheel had some slop to it. Pulled the bearings out and could see there had been some water intrusion where some of the grease was discolored, and the bearings had a bit of coloration to them from getting hot. We replaced them all with new Timken bearings and races last June, all we can figure is one of the seals failed and water got in somehow. New bearings and seals on the way, should be here Sunday and then we will see. Sure beats changing the axle though.

I can't seem to wrap my head around this one. I probably need mechanical engineer Rob Cate&Rob to weigh in. In my electrical manufacturing engineering mind, if the bearings were too loose, I'd expect to see the wear on the inside edge of the tire.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

I can't seem to wrap my head around this one. I probably need mechanical engineer Rob Cate&Rob to weigh in. In my electrical manufacturing engineering mind, if the bearings were too loose, I'd expect to see the wear on the inside edge of the tire.

Jim

ncitro
Hi Neil,

I would be with Jim on this . . . I don't see how loose bearings would cause tire wear on the outer edge. If the wheel was running out of alignment because of this, it should track up and/or back . . . both of which would cause wear on the inner side of the tire.

I wonder if you have the cause and effect backwards. Maybe misalignment (from some other cause) has created both the unusual tire where and the excessive bearing wear?

Rob