Undersized axles on Momentum 320G or just poor design?

[chikenstiker]

Update:

LCI has approved the dealer to have a local welder remove and relocate my hangers in the correct position, just waiting on scheduling.

What a pain this has been and it took going to the frame manufacturer and sending them the info Grand Design had already received and told me there was nothing wrong and I needed to learn how to load my rig better. Fingers crossed this makes a noticeable difference.

LCI Customer Service for the Win!

RoyB and other 320G owners check your hanger placement

[RoyB]

Update:

LCI has approved the dealer to have a local welder remove and relocate my hangers in the correct position, just waiting on scheduling.

What a pain this has been and it took going to the frame manufacturer and sending them the info Grand Design had already received and told me there was nothing wrong and I needed to learn how to load my rig better. Fingers crossed this makes a noticeable difference.

LCI Customer Service for the Win!

RoyB and other 320G owners check your hanger placement

Can you explain the hangers? A picture or drawing with measurements would be helpful.

[Wileykid]

Update:

LCI has approved the dealer to have a local welder remove and relocate my hangers in the correct position, just waiting on scheduling.

What a pain this has been and it took going to the frame manufacturer and sending them the info Grand Design had already received and told me there was nothing wrong and I needed to learn how to load my rig better. Fingers crossed this makes a noticeable difference.

LCI Customer Service for the Win!

RoyB and other 320G owners check your hanger placement

Thanks for all the info. When it stops raining, I will measure what mine are. I am still dealing with my spring issue's, and GD after two months so far, hasn't approved or even replied to what the dealer thinks the fix should be, which is replacing three of the four leaf springs, and one of the axle shackle bracket.

[chikenstiker]

Can you explain the hangers? A picture or drawing with measurements would be helpful.

So from the front of the frame/jacks to the center of the middle suspension hanger bolt should be 187 5/8". Mine were 185" Passenger Side and 185 5/8" drivers side. Hangers should be 30 1/2" apart, 3 of mine were and 1 was 30 5/8".

On Edit: Hopefully you seen the spec, if not PM me and we can discuss.

[Cate&Rob]

chikenstiker

Good to learn that you have a plan. WRT the drawing . . . do you have LCI or Grand Design permission to post this on the forum? I realize that your purpose is to clarify the measurement that you are talking about, but Grand Design has a strict requirement that no factory drawings are to be posted on any public forum. Please confirm that you have permission or remove the drawing.

No point in debating the validity of this Grand Design requirement WRT drawings . . . it is what it is.

Thanks
Rob (moderator)

[chikenstiker]

Figured I'd give a little update since I finally just got my trailer back (3 weeks they had it with a scheduled work date) for this last weekend outing...

First off I was not hauling any dirtbikes in this 110* weather we are having so I only had 4 SUPs, Large Ice Chest, Couple plastic tables and an eMTB in Garage.

What has been done thus far:

- LCI Paid Welder Hired by the Dealer to have the Suspension Hangers moved back. One side is still 1/8" forward and the other side 1/4" forward of where they are supposed to be per Spec.
- Grand Design Suggested I Lift trailer so it tows level. LCI asked that I buy their kit vs having the welder weld in a 2x2 tube while moving the hangers.
- Grand Design Paid for the Lift Kit minus shipping and the Dealer installed it.
- V Clips had to be replaced since they interfered with the Lift Kit Hardware.
- I purchased Sumo Springs (prior to "fix" being approved) and installed before I left. I should have tested without 1st, but I just want to be done with this crap!

The one negative is now my fenders don't line up and Grand Design tells me they don't see anything wrong.

Towing this weekend was better though! I had some sway, but nothing crazy and it straightened out faster than usual. (Remember I don't have dirt bikes so probably 600+ lbs short of usual) I felt it tug a bit when windy or big truck went by, but nothing like it did before. I'm not sure how much is the axle locations vs the Sumo Springs, but I will say this the Sumo Springs work wonders! Those cracks and potholes in the road are all smoothed out! There is less bouncing when hitting a dip of any sort and the trailer just feels smoother and you see it leaning less side to side when any sway or corner hits (probably helping sway).

Then, when driving home coming down a steep narrow windy road with nowhere to pull over for a mile I notice the left rear wheel is wobbling and if I take a corner it wobbles like crazy! I get to a small gas station to find 2 lug nuts broke and the wheel ~3/4" from the hub. Another mile down the steepest hill I would hit on my drive and it'd of been a **** show! ALL 4 wheels were less than hand tight and the Left Rear I got 3 lugs to snug down (afraid to torque too tight) 2 were stripped and 2 snapped. I snugged it and drove 10 miles under the speed limit all the way home stopping to check every now and again.

Rig is back at the dealer for 8 new Lug Nuts, a New Wheel and to re-adjust some of the lift brackets that have slipped out of alignment. I worry a little bit about the extra leverage of the lift brackets and the fact they bolt on, but we'll see, at least the trailer is almost level with my stock height dually now.

*I'll post a few pics..

[chikenstiker]

[chikenstiker]

[chikenstiker]

[chikenstiker]

[Guest]

I'm not fond of taller hangers and would have preferred the 2x2 channel to be welded in but at least you have the V Clips to help with support. Its sad that technicians these days are incapable of using a torque wrench. Torque tubes do not work but it looks like even those were not used here.

Jim

[TheNescios]

How fortunate you are that you caught what could have been a horrific occurance on what should have been a celabratory trip!

And reinforces why when picking up a couple of trailers over the last few years starting with the 5th wheel, then a 24' cargo trailer, followed by a small utility trailer, car trailer, and a 14' cargo trailer I cycled them all through the local tire place to have bearings cleaned, packed, and new seals installed "just because" - and even though they've done a nice job each time I stay there with the trailer the whole time to make sure things like the lug nuts are torqued correctly. Your experience just reinforces my commitment to make sure these things are done correctly!
I also carry a cordless impact wrench & tire inflator plus torque wrench and a set of lug nut deep sockets with teflon protectors on the outside plus TPMS that monitors pressure & temperature.
Not sure if a TPMS would have shown anything in this case though? Maybe a temperature increase??

Seems like too few techs now take the sort of pride in workmanship that not long ago was an industry standard.
Thankfully everyone is safe!

[chikenstiker]

How fortunate you are that you caught what could have been a horrific occurance on what should have been a celabratory trip!

And reinforces why when picking up a couple of trailers over the last few years starting with the 5th wheel, then a 24' cargo trailer, followed by a small utility trailer, car trailer, and a 14' cargo trailer I cycled them all through the local tire place to have bearings cleaned, packed, and new seals installed "just because" - and even though they've done a nice job each time I stay there with the trailer the whole time to make sure things like the lug nuts are torqued correctly. Your experience just reinforces my commitment to make sure these things are done correctly!
I also carry a cordless impact wrench & tire inflator plus torque wrench and a set of lug nut deep sockets with teflon protectors on the outside plus TPMS that monitors pressure & temperature.
Not sure if a TPMS would have shown anything in this case though? Maybe a temperature increase??

Seems like too few techs now take the sort of pride in workmanship that not long ago was an industry standard.
Thankfully everyone is safe!

The crappy part is I was going to check them when I picked it up Thursday night and left Friday morning. I looked at them and said I should check the lugs and the PSI, so I checked the PSI and they had actually topped them off and I assumed they did it all then. Lesson learned!

[chikenstiker]

I'm not fond of taller hangers and would have preferred the 2x2 channel to be welded in but at least you have the V Clips to help with support. Its sad that technicians these days are incapable of using a torque wrench. Torque tubes do not work but it looks like even those were not used here.

Jim

Totally agree, but LCI said no, to order the kit they sell and GD said yes and we'll pay for it. I wanted to keep the warranty and do it the way they wanted in case I had other issues down the road. Seems like a lot of leverage on there.

We're seriously debating selling the trailer and taking the hit we'll lose after having so many issues and now worrying more.

[TheNescios]

I wouldn't beat yourself up over the lug nuts - most of us probably would have missed them being overtightened?
You put a torque wrench on set the the right ft-lbs and it "clicks" so you assume they're tightened correctly - what are the chances you'd have caught an overtightened/stressed lug nut?
And in your case it would have been pretty difficult to stand there and watch every step the welder & techs did even if you're retired as most of them won't let you watch.

Nice part is you're sharing and it's going to stick with several of us and somewhere-sometime what you've shared will keep someone else from having a horrible experience.

Where are you measuring the axle dimensions from?
The engineer part of my brain is thinking the absolute true value needs to be derived from having the 5th wheel unhooked and level with relatively the same weight on both sides & axles, then attach a plumb bob to the 5th wheel pin to put a mark on the ground (could be front, center, or rear of the pin just as long as it's centered side to side), then use the plumb bob to put marks on the ground at the front & rear axle spring brackets and run a triangulation measurement. If my brain hasn't taken a wrong turn this should provide a pretty accurate way to verify alignement? Also have an idea on how the same thing could be done with a reflectorless survey instrument and a drive-over pit like at one of the oil change places that would be even more accurate!
Yes, I overthink things sometimes.....


As for the rest, I have my own issues with Grand Design having bought this 5th wheel just prior to Covid taking off and still have unresolved pre-delivery items 2 years later plus some added items.
It just doesn't seem possible to get decent product support anymore from anyone and it's very disappointing.
Will have to say I did by pure chance wind up in an RV park in the Benson, AZ area a little over a year ago where a GD factory tech was staying, we visited and I let him know about my issue with finding someone to walk me through the different systems as it was close to 2 months between my pre-delivery walk-through and when delivery actually happened due to Covid so I'd forgotten so many things. He was going to help me out but then had a rush call to an event where several people needed help, but when he heard I'd found a leaking water pump when cleaning out the garage area and finding water he made time to stop and help, replaced the pump in no time and was very personable and definitely knew his stuff.
I'd gladly pay that person a bit of money to walk through my 5th wheel and help me understand the systems better!!! (I've offered 3 separate GD dealership $$$ to do the same thing and been turned down each time)

Our post-Covid world is a far lesser place than it was prior to Covid.