Multiple Multiplus errors: Low Battery & Battery Voltage Ripple

[dgerfan]

Since I live in this RV my most pressing issue is what do I do if I have to send all the batteries back to Battleborn? We really need to be able to run microwave, coffee pot (especially), etc....

[ncitro]

ncitro Neil, Dumb question as I'm still somewhat new to this but doesn't the 12/3000/120 need a minumum of 400ah of battery to function correctly? If one of the batteries isnt taking a charge... or if its been eliminated from the mix, would'nt that have a negative effect on the systems operation?

Not really, the only issue is you’d be limited to the current output of the sum of the batteries you kept. So as you remove batteries you would not be able to use it at full power but you could run something small as a test.

[ncitro]

Since I live in this RV my most pressing issue is what do I do if I have to send all the batteries back to Battleborn? We really need to be able to run microwave, coffee pot (especially), etc....

You can bypass the Multiplus. Assuming you’re comfortable working with 120v wiring (kill power obviously), you can remove the wires from the input and output and splice them together. I’d suggest something like an insulated Polaris connector. I keep a set of these in my rig for just this scenario.

https://a.co/d/j4OFCMY

Be aware if you do this that you’ll have no charger or batteries (assuming you send them back) and pretty much everything in your rig needs 12v to operate. Control board in the fridge, the fridge itself if it’s DC, control board in the AC, water heater, and most if not all the lights all need 12v. You’ll need to hook up some kind of battery to use the rig, and some kind of charger. The factory converter (if it’s still installed) will work for a charger but is not meant to power the rig without a battery installed.

[Jlawles2]

When all of the victron equipment was installed, did they leave the original converter in place but disconnect and remove power??? If so then a cheap battery and hook it back into the original 12V power circuitry with the original converter energized and hooked up should get you at least on shore power running. this will keep you from being completely dead in the water. May not be convenient but at least you have some functionality.

[Kathy&Jim_Imagine]

@ncitro Neil, I guess that makes sense. Just less power available. Thanks.

[dgerfan]

You can bypass the Multiplus. Assuming you’re comfortable working with 120v wiring (kill power obviously), you can remove the wires from the input and output and splice them together. I’d suggest something like an insulated Polaris connector. I keep a set of these in my rig for just this scenario.

https://a.co/d/j4OFCMY

Be aware if you do this that you’ll have no charger or batteries (assuming you send them back) and pretty much everything in your rig needs 12v to operate. Control board in the fridge, the fridge itself if it’s DC, control board in the AC, water heater, and most if not all the lights all need 12v. You’ll need to hook up some kind of battery to use the rig, and some kind of charger. The factory converter (if it’s still installed) will work for a charger but is not meant to power the rig without a battery installed.

Unfortunately I only have a 7A shore connection which if my math is right isn't enough to run the microwave even if turn off all other A/C loads. I really have relied on Power Assist these couple months while we wait for our home base to be built. Also I sold the converter back in 2020 when I installed the Multiplus. Oh well I guess we can always run to a box store and get a couple lead acid if we are in a pinch.

[dgerfan]

I had a long conversation with Battleborn:

1.) Per them this issue doesn't happen often. I did a quick search on YT and found a couple others that had a similar issue - one was a bad BMS and they other was some unbalanced cells.
2.) If they RMA the batteries and they are unable to find a issue with them I could be charged. The individual I spoke with didn't know how much I would be charged before they sent the batteries back.
3.) Issue could be with the Multiplus and the tech recommended removing all connections (AC & DC) and allowing it to sit for an hour or so. He said this would reset the Multiplus and clear the Battery Voltage Ripple.
4.) The Tech said that since DC things such as light, refrigerator control board, USB, etc... are working it means the batteries are powering the DC loads. I told him that once I remove shore power the DC loads go off. He then changed course and said it might be a battery issue.

I find it odd that they would charge me for returning the batteries if I follow everything Tech Support directs me to try. To cover myself and eliminate the Multiplus from the equation I have purchased a Victron BlueSmart 12v 15A battery charger. Once it arrives I will charge each of the batteries with this charger and then attempt to run the Viar pump on each.

[Yoda]

I charged each of the batteries individually (except for the one that reads 0.00v) and waited till each was in float mode. Disconnected the negative and positive cables and checked voltage via volt meter. Each showed approximately 13.45v. I then connected the Viar Pump to each battery however none of the batteries were able to start the pump.

I thought LiFePO4 batterys should be over 14V when charged. Also as you were reading 6V I wonder if the BMS has failed as I believe BB has a BMS shut down well above that voltage.

BTW if you having to pay battle born something on the replacement, take a look at Li Time. I think they are 1/2 the cost of BB and Will Prowse likes them - I don't think he mentions BB anymore. Also Li Time is cheaper than some of the high AH lead acid batterys now to..

On last thought - on my Multiplus I had to lower the cut off voltage as my lead acid batterys have a fairly steep voltage drop when first loaded, then they come back.. I believe its now at 10.5 or 11V for low voltage cut off. I believe I read here it should be set slightly higher than the battery cut off voltage, but could be wrong..

Just food for thought
Keith

[dgerfan]

Yoda per Battleborn's documentation the bulk and absorption voltage should be 14.2 - 14.6 and float 13.6. Float isn't needed but my Multiplus was configured by AM Solar for the Float state not sure if this can be turned off. Thanks for Li Time recommendation however there is no $$$ in the budget for a all new lithium battery bank. I purchased the BBs in 2020 because they came highly recommended on YT and the 10 year warranty.

[dgerfan]

Does anyone know of any relatively inexpensive AGM batteries? I need to restore to the RV the ability to run the microwave and water heater as I don't know how long it will take to work the issues with BB.

[ncitro]

No help with AGM, but for short term I’d just get a couple cheap lead acid. If you’re looking to run the microwave in power assist off 7A shore power I’d think two would be enough.

[dgerfan]

I've been away from the RV visiting family and have just returned. I did attempt to charge each of the batteries with the Victron 15A charger which didn't work so for good measure I connected them 1 by 1 to my truck battery with the truck running. The voltage of each battery never went over 13.4v and after disconnecting each from the truck battery I connected the Viar compressor to see if it would run which it didn't.

I have received shipping boxes from BB and will have to send them in to be looked over with the outcome uncertain as to whether they will warranty them or not. In the meantime I've been looking at AGM or Lead Acid. Went to a local box store to purchase AGM batteries (as I don't want to deal with venting them) however the store personnel couldn't tell me the proper charging parameters to put into the Multiplus. I found a charging template email on the Explorist Life YT channel that I have sent out to a couple of the AGM manufacturers. Waiting back for a response. Does anyone know of "generic" settings that I can plug into the Multiplus that would work with any AGM batteries?

[dgerfan]

So my wife discouraged me from purchasing a couple lead acid or AGM batteries to use in the meantime while BB is looking at the (4) batteries. I still have the batteries because I want to make sure the issue isn't with my wiring, fuses, Inverter, etc.... BB support hasn't been very helpful so I've tried combing the Internet for ways to check to identify possible issues. What I'm finding is that the BB batteries don't have a number of the diagnostic tools that a lot of modern LiFePO4 batteries such as checking the individual cell bank voltages, etc.... Per some of my searching most of the issues with these batteries are low voltage shutoff, high voltage shutoff, BMS failure or unbalance cells. I'm thinking its either a unbalanced cell issue or a BMS failure. Per BB YT page the cells can be balanced by charging the batteries up to 14.4 volts. So I connected each battery to the Victron IP65 charger and charged them up to 14.4 volts however they are still showing the "low battery" error when I connect them back in parallel and attempt to run a high draw appliance. I'm not sure if they need to be charged and discharged multiple times to balance the cells.

As a last ditch effort I plan to purchase a Battery Capacity Tester off Amazon. Does anyone else have any other ideas on how to test these batteries?

[howson]

Does anyone else have any other ideas on how to test these batteries?

Take a fully-charged battery to your local auto parts store? Most around my area will do a load test for free.

Note that I assume their tester has a setting so the maximum draw can be set prior to the test. For a BB, that's 100A. If they can't set the maximum amperage on the tester, this idea might not be a good option.

Remember -- our RV batteries are meant to provide a relatively low amperage for long periods of time vs a starter battery which is designed to provide a high amperage for a short period of time. I'm not a battery-tester expert, but I'm guessing to do a load test correctly the tester must match the battery type under scrutiny.

Howard