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when moving batteries to pass thru... trailer jack, breakaway switch?

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  • when moving batteries to pass thru... trailer jack, breakaway switch?

    GD imagine. I'm installing a small solar setup and am going to place two 6 volt agms in the pass thru . Current setup is one 12 volt mounted on the tongue.

    Breakaway brake and trailer jack wiring currently is ran underneath tongue to a 30 amp fuse and then junction box underneath trailer. What do most people do when relocating a battery bank? Do you run a positive from your bus bar in pass thru to the junction box and fuse or do you relocate all that wiring into your new location?

    Hopefully that made sense, if not I'll post a pic.😀

    I'll have many more questions as I'm getting close to my first test. I didn't have any knowledge of ac/DC beforehand but have been researching all things concerning inverters, solar, charge controllers, fusing, wiring and how it all works for the past 3 or 4 months. Hopefully my questions will be specific and not of the "I bought a 100 watt solar panel, will I be able to run my AC all night" variety😆

    Thanks, Greg
    2018 grand design imagine 2600rb. Putting a small solar setup together and hope to add more batteries and panels in future.
    Going to put in 200 watts on roof and possibly use the furrion port for portable panel. I have (2) 6v agm 225a batteries. 3000w inverter (not charger) I have a WFCO WF-8955 power center. Goal is to wire into panel so I can use any outlet. I have a standalone ATS. I also have BMV 712 battery monitor.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Gakster View Post
    What do most people do when relocating a battery bank? Do you run a positive from your bus bar in pass thru to the junction box and fuse or do you relocate all that wiring into your new location?
    First, welcome to Grand Design's Technical Forum. Which model of Imagine? There's several individuals with currently ongoing (or just completed) projects that own Imagines.

    To your specific question, I can't speak for "most people" but I can relate what I did.

    The positive that comes off the battery on my 315RLTS went a very short distance (looped under the front crossbeam immediately behind the "A" frame) and connected to a self-resetting 30A circuit breaker. During my project that wire was removed and discarded.

    When I installed my batteries in the passthru I ran a new wire to that original location on the 30A self-resetting circuit breaker.

    Click image for larger version

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    For a look at my complete system (caution: may be overwhelming) see https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...lts-f-350-mods

    Other reading I encourage you to check out as many of the same questions you'll have are already addressed.

    https://gdrvowners.com/forum/solar/17238-cheap-solar
    https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...-and-questions

    There's plenty more, too--use the search function to find threads related to "inverter", "charger", "battery" and there's a lot to read!

    Howard



    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    Howard, 2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Howard,

      As far as reading and searching, I think I've read this whole forum/subforums and about 10 others. Throw in subscribing to 20 other solar and electrical Facebook pages and 100s of videos. It's kept me busy to go from layman to understanding what everything is and what it does. It's funny I've been a PC hardware/software tech for 3 decades but have never had the necessity to learn all about ac/dc.

      Anyways I have a 2018 imagine 2600 rb. I think I will do what you say and leave the wiring there underneath.

      Yesterday I tried a test run on hooking up the batteries, solar panels, charge controller, inverter and bm712. I successfully paired up shunt and controller and everything worked!!! I hadn't hooked up to trailer system, just a standalone type of test.

      Left to do
      1. Mount solar panels
      2. Tie into trailer so I can lighten the load by about 60 lbs of interstate battery greatness.
      3. Figure out how to tie my system into the ac/DC main panel so all outlets work.
      4.figure out how to use my PD 5100 ATS to switch my OEM converter off when my inverter is on. I didn't buy a inverter charger so I got to work with what I got.

      I have attached a pic of my temporary setup. Can you see anything glaringly wrong? I will probably upgrade the 2/0 to 4/0 cabling but I wanted to see if it worked. Everything was new to me...crimping, wiring and all so it was good practice.im going g to label everything and will post in future questions. Since you're a mod do you encourage separate posts for different questions to aid in people searching and to keep the replies on topic, rather than ask 16 questions in one thread?

      From reading this forum, I've been able to identify lots of good knowledgeable people that love to learn as they go and I hope to have their input on my quest. 30 years of navigating the web and one knows how to separate the ones that give uninformed faulty info/guesses/opinions and those that are replying with informed info that's based on knowledge, research and real world experience
      You are one of the latter and you do a great job here.
      Click image for larger version  Name:	20200627_220919.jpg Views:	0 Size:	152.2 KB ID:	22801
      Last edited by Gakster; 06-28-2020, 02:58 AM.
      2018 grand design imagine 2600rb. Putting a small solar setup together and hope to add more batteries and panels in future.
      Going to put in 200 watts on roof and possibly use the furrion port for portable panel. I have (2) 6v agm 225a batteries. 3000w inverter (not charger) I have a WFCO WF-8955 power center. Goal is to wire into panel so I can use any outlet. I have a standalone ATS. I also have BMV 712 battery monitor.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gakster View Post
        I have attached a pic of my temporary setup. Can you see anything glaringly wrong?
        A few thoughts based on what I see in the photograph.

        1) Consider moving the large 400A(?) fuse between the cutoff switch and the bus bar. As configured in the picture, the fuse is only "seeing" the current coming from the inverter back to the battery (electron flow, i.e. negative to positive). Anything added (like the OEM wiring) to the bus bar bypasses the fuse. As the other circuits that tie into the bus bar have their own protection this is probably just a preference, not a "must do".

        2) A 20A MPPT does not require large wiring, but if your experience during the installation is anything like mine, routing and securing the wiring is not fun. Consider installing larger gauge wires (largest the MPPT will accept) so if later more panels are added (and a larger MPPT is required) the wires are already in place.

        3) The wires coming from the MPPT to the bus bars appear to be solid core (one strand). If they are--use multi-strand "welding" wires, not single strand. Will Prowse's video on wiring and connectors has the best explanation I've come across.

        Originally posted by Gakster View Post
        Since you're a mod do you encourage separate posts for different questions to aid in people searching and to keep the replies on topic, rather than ask 16 questions in one thread?
        If the questions relate to the original theme of the thread I prefer them in one thread. The next person that comes along that reads the thread will likely have the same questions and will benefit from having the questions answered in one place. It does make it easier to find and answer the questions if they are listed separately instead of inside of a paragraph.

        If there's a question about tires, slides, or how to change the bathroom faucet--those require a different thread.

        Originally posted by Gakster View Post
        You are one of the latter and you do a great job here.
        Thank you for the kind words. I'm just emulating the example of my moderator mentors, TucsonJim and Cate&Rob . (Jim is very experienced both professionally and privately with the subject of this thread. Hopefully he chimes in with his .02--you'll benefit from his input.)

        Howard
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        Howard, 2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

        Comment


        • #5
          I ran into this same dilemma that has been described in moving the batteries to the passthrough. I left the wires on the frame, and connected both wires that ran to my battery switch to one side of the switch and ran a dedicated battery cable to the other side of the switch. But this is where there is an issue. The 8 AWG circuits are no longer protected from the battery side so I connected a 30 amp auto reset breaker since the frame circuit is now being back fed.
          Mounting batteries in the passthrough will change how the battery switch is wired which is directly to the battery with no fuse or breaker. To get around this, a curt break away kit can be installed where this kit can be mounted on the tongue of the trailer. This device incorporates its own battery and charger and will still maintain the direct unprotected battery feed to the break away switch. For the positive feed to the curt break away system, a breaker can be used if desired since this is just operating the integrated charger.

          Jim
          2017 Imagine 2600RB
          2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by howson View Post

            A few thoughts based on what I see in the photograph.

            1) Consider moving the large 400A(?) fuse between the cutoff switch and the bus bar. As configured in the picture, the fuse is only "seeing" the current coming from the inverter back to the battery (electron flow, i.e. negative to positive). Anything added (like the OEM wiring) to the bus bar bypasses the fuse. As the other circuits that tie into the bus bar have their own protection this is probably just a preference, not a "must do".
            I have a 300 amp fuse between inverter and bus bar. I also have a 300 amp t fuse on the positive battery post. The only thing on the positive battery post is 2/0 cable to shutoff and the bm 712 positive wire. I need to grasp it a little more before maybe asking a question.

            2) A 20A MPPT does not require large wiring, but if your experience during the installation is anything like mine, routing and securing the wiring is not fun. Consider installing larger gauge wires (largest the MPPT will accept) so if later more panels are added (and a larger MPPT is required) the wires are already in place.
            I certainly see myself adding some more panels and consequently another or bigger solar charger. Problem was, I ordered all this stuff while we had the money and doesn't reflect all the knowledge I acquired in the months afterwards. I'm certainly kicking myself on both the charge controller and the inverter (just a standalone, not a "smart" one with a charger and ATS)

            As it is very difficult for me to physically do this (muscular dystrophy) , I certainly only want to do the wiring to the roof only once, or for that matter, anything going thruout the trailer. Let's just say, me climbing a ladder and getting back down is a project in itself.

            3) The wires coming from the MPPT to the bus bars appear to be solid core (one strand). If they are--use multi-strand "welding" wires, not single strand. Will Prowse's video on wiring and connectors has the best explanation I've come across.
            It is stranded 10 awg. I've watched a lot of will's videos and even bought his book. Little on the thin side though. I was expecting more like a 10awg book, instead it more of a 14awg book.

            If the questions relate to the original theme of the thread I prefer them in one thread. The next person that comes along that reads the thread will likely have the same questions and will benefit from having the questions answered in one place. It does make it easier to find and answer the questions if they are listed separately instead of inside of a paragraph.

            If there's a question about tires, slides, or how to change the bathroom faucet--those require a different thread.
            Gotcha... we're on the same page there



            Thank you for the kind words. I'm just emulating the example of my moderator mentors, TucsonJim and Cate&Rob . (Jim is very experienced both professionally and privately with the subject of this thread. Hopefully he chimes in with his .02--you'll benefit from his input.)

            Howard
            Thanks Howard, I've noticed all the knowledgeable help those 2 and many others, as I suck up all your knowledge and experience. Once I think I can answer questions based on my research and experience, I will pass that on to the people just starting out like I was. I'll start a new thread with other questions.

            Oh, and I'm rereading your Electrical mod Feedback wanted thread from that other site, all 247 replies. Gonna save all the pics and text and put in a pdf or something, as kind of a offline reading type of thing.
            Last edited by Gakster; 06-29-2020, 08:42 PM.
            2018 grand design imagine 2600rb. Putting a small solar setup together and hope to add more batteries and panels in future.
            Going to put in 200 watts on roof and possibly use the furrion port for portable panel. I have (2) 6v agm 225a batteries. 3000w inverter (not charger) I have a WFCO WF-8955 power center. Goal is to wire into panel so I can use any outlet. I have a standalone ATS. I also have BMV 712 battery monitor.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
              I ran into this same dilemma that has been described in moving the batteries to the passthrough. I left the wires on the frame, and connected both wires that ran to my battery switch to one side of the switch and ran a dedicated battery cable to the other side of the switch. But this is where there is an issue. The 8 AWG circuits are no longer protected from the battery side so I connected a 30 amp auto reset breaker since the frame circuit is now being back fed.
              Mounting batteries in the passthrough will change how the battery switch is wired which is directly to the battery with no fuse or breaker. To get around this, a curt break away kit can be installed where this kit can be mounted on the tongue of the trailer. This device incorporates its own battery and charger and will still maintain the direct unprotected battery feed to the break away switch. For the positive feed to the curt break away system, a breaker can be used if desired since this is just operating the integrated charger.

              Jim
              So I ended up, because I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF IT WOULD WORK, just running a positive from new battery bank from the bus bar to the positive on the 30 amp resettable breaker that was mounted underneath trailer. I just removed that old OEM cable Will that work? There is also the negative battery cable from old battery going to the chassis ground. I disconnected that. I have a new chassis ground more in the center of the underneath of trailer that has my inverter chassis ground (8awg) and a 6awg cable from load side of shunt going to the same chassis ground. Probably a stupid question, but does it matter that I made another chassis ground? I believe there is another chassis ground from Main Panel, so it probably is a stupid question. I'll try and keep those to a minimum.

              Thanks, You're another guy that I believe in the info you provide.
              2018 grand design imagine 2600rb. Putting a small solar setup together and hope to add more batteries and panels in future.
              Going to put in 200 watts on roof and possibly use the furrion port for portable panel. I have (2) 6v agm 225a batteries. 3000w inverter (not charger) I have a WFCO WF-8955 power center. Goal is to wire into panel so I can use any outlet. I have a standalone ATS. I also have BMV 712 battery monitor.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gakster View Post

                So I ended up, because I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF IT WOULD WORK, just running a positive from new battery bank from the bus bar to the positive on the 30 amp resettable breaker that was mounted underneath trailer. I just removed that old OEM cable Will that work?There is also the negative battery cable from old battery going to the chassis ground. I disconnected that. I have a new chassis ground more in the center of the underneath of trailer that has my inverter chassis ground (8awg) and a 6awg cable from load side of shunt going to the same chassis ground. Probably a stupid question, but does it matter that I made another chassis ground?I believe there is another chassis ground from Main Panel, so it probably is a stupid question. I'll try and keep those to a minimum.

                Thanks, You're another guy that I believe in the info you provide.
                Gakster ,

                Thank you,

                I was concerned with running an unprotected wire from the positive busbars so I added a breaker to the other side of the original 8 AWG wire from the original switch end. The word I am getting from some in the industry is this is ok as long as no other loads are on that line. Since this this is not the case for my rig, I will still leave the breaker in place but will connect a Curt break away kit to where the original battery was connected at the frame. This way, the integrated charger of the curt system will charge the dedicated break away battery. You may opt for the break away kit option or a dedicated circuit with a breaker and no other loads on that circuit.

                No question is stupid. I asked the same question to an EE friend at work and he gave me the green light in doing this, so I grounded my negative busbar to the frame on the left side of the rig where this was close to the docking station where all my electrical stuff is located.

                Jim
                Last edited by MidwestCamper; 06-30-2020, 08:39 AM.
                2017 Imagine 2600RB
                2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                Comment

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