True cost ofa Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V VE.Bus PMP123021102

[Yoda]

Good evening folks. First wishing everyone good health, and well wishes for the new year.

I was bored today after plowing the snow from the drive.
First with the sale at invertersrus.com I started to put together a list of what is needed to actually run a MultiPlus unit. Without having to use a smart phone it takes the following to program from my desktop. DW has a laptop, so maybe she will let me install the program for travel. Prices shown do not have the 15% discount that is currently good. BTW their customer service is pretty good with all the questions I asked.

If I am wrong in any of this please let me know.

First the MultiPlus cost Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V VE.Bus PMP123021102 $1,284.35

I can go with the 2000W version too.

To program I need Victron Interface MK3-USB (VE.Bus to USB) ASS030140000 $68.85

and Victron Energy RJ45 UTP Cable 0.3M to 15 Meters $7.65 – $24.65

Then I would like to have a monitor in the trailer so I would need the following.

Victron Energy Cerbo GX BPP900450100 $323.85 Victron GX Touch 50 BPP900455050 $245.65

Yes I know I could go blue-tooth, but I am the worst of trying to use that and I would need a larger screen and update my phone data plan.

So bottom line I need to spend $1947,35 to have this up and running.

My alternate is a Go Power 3000 Watt 12V Pure Sine Inverter GP-ISW3000-12 $959.99
A transfer switch
Go Power! TS-30 30 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch $80

If I go lithium I will need to upgrade the WFCO or get a stand alone charger - say $300

The cabling/fuse holders/switches/bus bars are all about the same. Then there are the batterys - do I go cheap at first GC2 and pay later for the Battle Borns hoping for a future price drop? Will SWMBO allow this expense. She says were good now as long as battery's don't fail. I can also probably get along with a 2000W inverter. Stay tuned - She does not know I ordered the solar panels yet - but I can sell that for the Alaska trip.


Do I have this right? What am I missing (must be something) Will I survive or am I just plane

Thanks for your thoughts

Keith

[ncitro]

Good evening folks. First wishing everyone good health, and well wishes for the new year.

I was bored today after plowing the snow from the drive.
First with the sale at invertersrus.com I started to put together a list of what is needed to actually run a MultiPlus unit. Without having to use a smart phone it takes the following to program from my desktop. DW has a laptop, so maybe she will let me install the program for travel. Prices shown do not have the 15% discount that is currently good. BTW their customer service is pretty good with all the questions I asked.

If I am wrong in any of this please let me know.

First the MultiPlus cost Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V VE.Bus PMP123021102 $1,284.35

I can go with the 2000W version too.

To program I need Victron Interface MK3-USB (VE.Bus to USB) ASS030140000 $68.85

and Victron Energy RJ45 UTP Cable 0.3M to 15 Meters $7.65 – $24.65

Then I would like to have a monitor in the trailer so I would need the following.

Victron Energy Cerbo GX BPP900450100 $323.85 Victron GX Touch 50 BPP900455050 $245.65

Yes I know I could go blue-tooth, but I am the worst of trying to use that and I would need a larger screen and update my phone data plan.

So bottom line I need to spend $1947,35 to have this up and running.

My alternate is a Go Power 3000 Watt 12V Pure Sine Inverter GP-ISW3000-12 $959.99
A transfer switch
Go Power! TS-30 30 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch $80

If I go lithium I will need to upgrade the WFCO or get a stand alone charger - say $300

The cabling/fuse holders/switches/bus bars are all about the same. Then there are the batterys - do I go cheap at first GC2 and pay later for the Battle Borns hoping for a future price drop? Will SWMBO allow this expense. She says were good now as long as battery's don't fail. I can also probably get along with a 2000W inverter. Stay tuned - She does not know I ordered the solar panels yet - but I can sell that for the Alaska trip.


Do I have this right? What am I missing (must be something) Will I survive or am I just plane

Thanks for your thoughts

Keith

This seems right, but a few caveats.

You do not need the Victron UTP cable. It is just a standard ethernet cord. I had millions of them laying around. Its a small price, but some money to be saved there.

As we discussed earlier, I run their Victron OS on a Raspberry Pi rather than the Color Control or Cerbo, so no info there. The Pi is cheaper, but you need to be somewhat tech savvy to get that running. I have seen a few people run the Digital Multi Control on Youtube. It is quite a bit cheaper than the Color Control or Cerbo, at about $130. You do not have a central display for the BMV and Smart Solar, but if you do not have those components you might be okay. I have no experience with it, but I do know it allows you to see the inverter/charger status, turn it on and off, and set the current limit for Power Assist. Those are the main things you would be doing on the Cerbo, but if you need to see any current output of the inverter you would need to rely on your phone or the laptop.

https://invertersrus.com/product/vic...dmc000200010r/

As for the batteries, I think you know where most of us stand there, and its going to come down to a personal choice. I ran my Magnum 2800 watt inverter off of four golf car batteries with no issue (other than their life and run time) for two years. What the lithium gets you is more usable AH, less weight, no maintenance (big selling point for me), and a higher rate of charge and discharge. That last one is key to keep in mind. If you replace your converter it will not be nearly as powerful of a charger as the Multiplus is at 125 amps. If you stay with lead acid this will not be an issue, but let me tell you its a delight if on a cloudy day I need to run my generator to get 125 amps an hour out of it vs 55 or even 75 on the aftermarket converter I had. That translates to less generator run time, less noise, and overall less worry. You could obviously install multiple converters to get the same level of charging, and it might even be cheaper, but it would be much more complex, and more difficult to wire.

[ncitro]

I am going to defer to howson here, but I think in order to use the GX Touch 50 you also need a Cerbo, https://invertersrus.com/product/vic...-bpp900450100/

You might want to clarify that with your vendor, but that is additional cost you might need to consider.

Edit: Yeah I checked some forums quick and it looks like you do need both. The Color Control is probably a cheaper option. Cerbo gives you a bunch more connections that in an RV we should not need.

[gbkims]

The IC-3000 does have built in transfer relay/switch.

Some IC-3000 info I'd read awhile back.
No actual experience with them myself.
https://changinglanesrv.com/inverter-project/
https://gopower.happyfox.com/kb/arti...oubleshooting/
https://support.gpelectric.com/kb/ar...lt-conditions/
https://gopower.happyfox.com/kb/arti...ot-turning-on/
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...d/29355014.cfm
https://www.granddesignnation.com/t/...s-horrible/428

[Yoda]

Thanks folks
I have learned a lot today.

[Yoda]

The IC-3000 does have built in transfer relay/switch.

Some IC-3000 info I'd read awhile back.
No actual experience with them myself.
https://changinglanesrv.com/inverter-project/
https://gopower.happyfox.com/kb/arti...oubleshooting/
https://support.gpelectric.com/kb/ar...lt-conditions/
https://gopower.happyfox.com/kb/arti...ot-turning-on/
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...d/29355014.cfm
https://www.granddesignnation.com/t/...s-horrible/428

Good evening Gene
I am not considering the Go Power inverter/charger (IC series) , Just the pure sign wave inverter ISW series. Do the above issues still apply?

Thanks for the information
Keith

[Yoda]

OK I went through today's mail and ran across several year end sales on laptops. For $570 (cost of Cerbo GX and Touch 50) I can get a decent laptop with Bluetooth to do the same? Is this logical? What I don't know is do I need a router or hotspot or anything special to make this work? Waite I still need the Cerbo GX for the Bluetooth connectivity.

Round and Round we go.

Time for bed

Thanks
Keith

[howson]

ncitro and Yoda ,

The CerboGX provides more connections (probably unneeded in Keith's configuration) than the ColorGX. The ability to remotely mount the Touch 50 (without having to run all the connection cables) is the reason I mentioned the Touch 50/Cerbo setup.

Think of it this way: the ColorGX is a "laptop" and the CerboGX/Touch 50 is like a "standard computer". Both will accomplish the same task, but the laptop has everything in one place where the case of the standard computer can be placed under the desk (with all the wires plugged in to it) with just the monitor on your desk.

Ignoring all the additional inputs on the Cerbo (that probably will never be used):

• If the display screen will be mounted a significant distance from the inverter, solar MPPT or battery monitor the Cerbo/Touch 50 may be the best choice.
• If the screen will be close to the other components (like in my setup) the ColorGX will work.

[ncitro]

OK I went through today's mail and ran across several year end sales on laptops. For $570 (cost of Cerbo GX and Touch 50) I can get a decent laptop with Bluetooth to do the same? Is this logical? What I don't know is do I need a router or hotspot or anything special to make this work? Waite I still need the Cerbo GX for the Bluetooth connectivity.

Round and Round we go.

Time for bed

Thanks
Keith

No internet or router is needed to connect to and configure the multi plus. You need to connect via hard wire to change pretty much any settings except the incoming power level for power assist. To connect via hard wire you need the mk3 USB cable you show and either a PC, a Mac, or an Android phone or tablet. If you purchase the Bluetooth adaptor, you can connect with any Bluetooth device (PC, Mac, Apple phone or tablet, or Android phone or tablet), but you are limited to seeing the power in and out of the multiplus and changing the incoming power for power assist. No Cerbo or Color Control GX should be needed in this case.

https://www.victronenergy.com/access...s-smart-dongle

All of that being said I'd urge you to have a conversation with your dealer about all this. They will be more knowledgeable about the product line than any of us and should be able to help clarify it.

A quick word of warning. I bought my first MultiPlus off of Amazon. It was Prime so I could get it right away and a good price. It had problems out of the box, it would charge fine, but the transfer switch was intermittent and it would not always switch to inverter. Not wanting to pull it out and return it and replace it I reached out to Victron to see about getting a replacement board. I found they offer no end user support, it's all provided by the dealer, of which Amazon is not one. I reached out to Amazon and they told me I should try to get support from Victron. Some listings on Amazon show as sold by a third party who would be the supporting dealer, but not mine, i showed as sold by Amazon. In the end Amazon took it back and I ordered a replacement from AM Solar and everything was fine, but just a warning to watch where you order from.

[howson]

ncitro -- wise advice in post #9.

Yoda , I went with AMSolar because I "purchased" their knowledge and phone time with the equipment and I bought their Smart Phase Switch. I had possibly a dozen interactions with AMSolar engineers asking specific technical questions. Honestly, some of the experiences were great and some were not. It depended on who I talked to.

There are many reputable Victron dealers on the internet besides AMSolar. Factor in your ability to get knowledgeable responses to after-the-sale questions as part of the "cost" of this purchase. To me it was worth the extra $ to know I had someone to call and ask for help. YMMV

[ncitro]

ncitro -- wise advice in post #9.

Yoda , I went with AMSolar because I "purchased" their knowledge and phone time with the equipment and I bought their Smart Phase Switch. I had possibly a dozen interactions with AMSolar engineers asking specific technical questions. Honestly, some of the experiences were great and some were not. It depended on who I talked to.

There are many reputable Victron dealers on the internet besides AMSolar. Factor in your ability to get knowledgeable responses to after-the-sale questions as part of the "cost" of this purchase. To me it was worth the extra $ to know I had someone to call and ask for help. YMMV

I did a bit of research on the Victron site and InvertersRUs is listed as an authorized dealer, so that's good. As far as their support level I'd recommend you reach out to them with some questions as see if they give you the "warm fuzzies" or not. Compared to a full residential setup, what we use in our RVs is a simple setup and uses just a small portion of what a company like Victron offers. That does not mean the selection and install is for the faint of heart. You're probably going to have questions before, during, and after the process and you'll want to make sure they're going to be and to help with those questions.

[Yoda]

ncitro and Yoda ,

The CerboGX provides more connections (probably unneeded in Keith's configuration) than the ColorGX. The ability to remotely mount the Touch 50 (without having to run all the connection cables) is the reason I mentioned the Touch 50/Cerbo setup.

Think of it this way: the ColorGX is a "laptop" and the CerboGX/Touch 50 is like a "standard computer". Both will accomplish the same task, but the laptop has everything in one place where the case of the standard computer can be placed under the desk (with all the wires plugged in to it) with just the monitor on your desk.

Ignoring all the additional inputs on the Cerbo (that probably will never be used):

• If the display screen will be mounted a significant distance from the inverter, solar MPPT or battery monitor the Cerbo/Touch 50 may be the best choice.
• If the screen will be close to the other components (like in my setup) the ColorGX will work.

By ColorGX you mean this model? https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control

I do have easy access to pull wires to the ColorGX as the wall between the living and bath has an opening to the basement right beside the current WFCO. I was going to mount the MultiPlus in the front bay right beside the battery's as 110v cable is easier to run the the wfco.. Total wire run to where the ColorGX might go is 6' to 10'

[ncitro]

By ColorGX you mean this model? https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control

I do have easy access to pull wires to the ColorGX as the wall between the living and bath has an opening to the basement right beside the current WFCO. I was going to mount the MultiPlus in the front bay right beside the battery's as 110v cable is easier to run the the wfco.. Total wire run to where the ColorGX might go is 6' to 10'

Yes that link is the Color GX that Howard has.

[Yoda]

I did a bit of research on the Victron site and InvertersRUs is listed as an authorized dealer, so that's good. As far as their support level I'd recommend you reach out to them with some questions as see if they give you the "warm fuzzies" or not. Compared to a full residential setup, what we use in our RVs is a simple setup and uses just a small portion of what a company like Victron offers. That does not mean the selection and install is for the faint of heart. You're probably going to have questions before, during, and after the process and you'll want to make sure they're going to be and to help with those questions.

Neil I have been trading emails with InvertersRUs. Excellent response time (even after hours) and they asked what I would consider to be the right questions that the product (MultiPlus), was correct for my application, including sizing, auto disconnect switch. etc. I was having trouble understanding the programing hook up and he sent me a pictorial guide. Page 2 got me straight https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...n-Guide-EN.pdf One strange thing is I never got his name
AM Solar has helped in the same way responding quickly to emails. Was trying to verify the wiring being PV and UV rated. The even recommended another product that he was positive was. No phone calls to either (haven't needed to).

[ncitro]

Thats great. Sounds like both companies would be a good choice. Just wanted to caution you that the dealer you buy from will be responsible for all your support.