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**Country Campers** · 07-31-2023, 07:02 PM

For fifth wheel RV's it is customary to use a 20% pin weight based on the gross weight of the RV. So for the 399Th at 20K you would use #4000 at a minimum. I would guess that you are thinking of a F450 or in that area. When shopping make sure to look at the door sticker for "cargo weight capacity" this number is what determines how much you can put in the truck from factory new. Things like running boards, hitch, tonneau cover, mud flaps, people, and so on all take away from that number.

Brian

**Jstahl** · 07-31-2023, 07:57 PM

Yes, possibly a F-450 but you get more payload with a F-350. That's the dilemma at this time. Also installing a 40 gallon fuel tank and hitch, which are obviously part of the equation.

**TedS** · 07-31-2023, 08:42 PM

My F350 with a 48gal tank has a payload capacity rating of 4164lbs.

**AlexPeterson** · 08-01-2023, 07:12 AM

Payload AND axle limits both need to be considered.

**Scott'n'Wendy** · 08-01-2023, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Jstahl View Post

Yes, possibly a F-450 but you get more payload with a F-350.

Being less capable, are F450's cheaper? Or are they just loaded down with creature comforts making them more expensive?

**Jstahl** · 08-01-2023, 10:37 PM

F-450 have a wide track front axle for smaller turning radius, larger brakes, 19.5 commercial tires & wheels, upgraded rear axle shafts and reinforced front chassis. With all these upgraded parts, this is why the payload on an F-450 is lower than an F-350 and adding some price increase.

**JRKJR** · 08-02-2023, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post

Being less capable, are F450's cheaper? Or are they just loaded down with creature comforts making them more expensive?

Oh, they are WAY more capable. The only thing less capable is the sticker on the door and the 14k GVWR needed to keep them as a class 3 truck. Why that matters, who knows, I'm sure its some gov regulations

**Scott'n'Wendy** · 08-02-2023, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by JRKJR View Post

Oh, they are WAY more capable. The only thing less capable is the sticker on the door and the 14k GVWR needed to keep them as a class 3 truck. Why that matters, who knows, I'm sure its some gov regulations

I'm not sure what you mean. If they are more capable, why are they stickered with lower payload ratings than the F350? I'm not jerking your chain, just curious why they would be rated lower than the 350, if, in fact, they are more capable.

**acoleman43** · 08-02-2023, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post

I'm not sure what you mean. If they are more capable, why are they stickered with lower payload ratings than the F350? I'm not jerking your chain, just curious why they would be rated lower than the 350, if, in fact, they are more capable.

I was curious so I looked up the 2023 towing guide. Sure enough, the capacities for DRW F350 are greater than F450 - Except conventional towing. The F450 looks to be about 500# heavier than the F350 DRE.

**GreggGDMomentum** · 08-02-2023, 10:15 PM

Chiming in because I just went through this myself.I heard the F450 has bigger brakes too when doing research a month ago, hence the larger wheels and the wider front axle. That all and above mentioned items takes from the payload of the F450 because they use the same frame as the F350 dually diesel. I just went through this myself, I purchased a 20 F350 dually lariat (with 4.10 rears) a few weeks ago AND a 22 381MS. My payload sticker is 5225. Of course the higher up the food chain you go, (King Ranch, platinum, limited) the more payload you lose in either F350 or F450. SO, depending on what you mean by capable may just depend on what exactly your personal priorities are I would guess. With the 381MS originally I was thinking I didn't care either way either worked, whatever I got the best deal on with a lariat, but now hmm, bigger brakes you say, might have been nice. But I'm not done playing with those settings yet as I am way within the ridiculous 32,000 5th wheel towing capacity, at least so Ford says...Cheers

**JRKJR** · 08-02-2023, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post

I'm not sure what you mean. If they are more capable, why are they stickered with lower payload ratings than the F350? I'm not jerking your chain, just curious why they would be rated lower than the 350, if, in fact, they are more capable.

Because they are artificially limited by a 14k GVWR. If Ford tagged it with say a 15k GVWR then that would put it into a class 4 classification. What that would mean in the real world I can’t tell you. But a 14k rating along with heavier parts gives it a lower payload rating.

it’s also why the sticker weight isn’t the end all and frankly ridiculous in this case. The 450 is a more capable truck in every way but by that sticker. Typically it is about 500lbs +\- heavier than a similarly equipped 350. Every pound of that is in stronger, heavier duty parts. Tires, wheels, brakes, etc.

**Scott'n'Wendy** · 08-03-2023, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by JRKJR View Post

Because they are artificially limited by a 14k GVWR. If Ford tagged it with say a 15k GVWR then that would put it into a class 4 classification. What that would mean in the real world I can’t tell you. But a 14k rating along with heavier parts gives it a lower payload rating.

it’s also why the sticker weight isn’t the end all and frankly ridiculous in this case. The 450 is a more capable truck in every way but by that sticker. Typically it is about 500lbs +\- heavier than a similarly equipped 350. Every pound of that is in stronger, heavier duty parts. Tires, wheels, brakes, etc.

Ah, I see what you are saying now.

**Jlawles2** · 08-03-2023, 06:38 AM

Something just crossed my mind as reading this that will take a bit of research.

3X class trucks (all brands) now are boasting 30K+ trailer towing. How does the tongue weight of these heavy trailers distribute to reach these loads? Are they lowering the GN weights below 15%???

I have not seen a trailering guide from GM that mentions axle capacities, nor have I seen it in the standard literature. To find axle capacities I ended up at GMUPFITTER.COM and digging through the up fitter manuals.

**GreggGDMomentum** · 08-03-2023, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

Something just crossed my mind as reading this that will take a bit of research.

3X class trucks (all brands) now are boasting 30K+ trailer towing. How does the tongue weight of these heavy trailers distribute to reach these loads? Are they lowering the GN weights below 15%???

I have not seen a trailering guide from GM that mentions axle capacities, nor have I seen it in the standard literature. To find axle capacities I ended up at GMUPFITTER.COM and digging through the up fitter manuals.

It appears that way, my truck Ford says can tow 32,000 (with the 4.10's) with the fifth wheel and even more with a gooseneck. At 20% that 6400 pounds, at 15% that's 4800 pounds. My payload sticker says 5225, so it looks like they are saying 15%. Me personally I will keep things around 20% with the 20,0000 pound max RV.

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