Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trailer side-to-side nose movement while towing - Goosebox vs. 5th wheel hitch

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Trailer side-to-side nose movement while towing - Goosebox vs. 5th wheel hitch

    I don't see a sub-forum for frames, so I'll post this here because of the first question below. Caveat, heading to factory in April and a check for abnormal frame flex is on the agenda (suspension, electrical also) but I'd like to be comfortable that we are safe to tow given the decal wrinkles on the off-door side which appear to be a new addition. I am heavy up front with the generator and W/D.

    I have noticed when occasionally glancing in the rear view mirror while towing (and this dates back to our first trip to South Dakota April 2022 when the filon trim screws snapped on the door side), is that there is quite a bit of side-to-side rotation and lateral movement of the entire trailer over the pin as the road surface changes and not so much the pinbox itself. I will be putting a dash cam on the rear window to capture some of this. I’ve been told I shouldn’t see this happen but perhaps that might be the case with a traditional fifth wheel hitch as opposed to a Goosebox (and ball) which does allow some rotation on the ball?​

    Are there any tests I can perform at home to ensure that if there is any abnormal frame flex in the front, it will be safe to pull it to Elkhart from NH? The decal wrinkles only appeared in the last 1,000 miles or so of our trip last season and coincidentally our 2nd Goosebox relief valve blew out when we pulled into our site in North Carolina. Prior to that we were in Chattanooga for 3 nights and there were no wrinkles.

    I asked those questions at three GD dealerships last year that I visited on the way to Montana and one suggested that measuring how far the pinbox moves before the nose cap lifts would be a good idea but I have no specifications and LCI couldn’t provide any in the past (I asked them directly after the filon trim screws snapped). Any tests I should do before leaving?

    Thanks,
    John

    Click image for larger version  Name:	wrinkles.jpg Views:	0 Size:	80.7 KB ID:	129967

    Last edited by Country Campers; 03-08-2024, 12:00 PM. Reason: changed font size
    2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar, factory gen, 8K axles with discs, W/D, Heat Pump, Gen 2 Goosebox, Battleborn
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin

  • #2
    ajg617

    Have you watched BigTruckBigRV's series of videos on the "frame flex" topic? If not, they might be enlightening. His channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/@BigTruckBigRV

    Howard
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by howson View Post
      ajg617

      Have you watched BigTruckBigRV's series of videos on the "frame flex" topic? If not, they might be enlightening. His channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/@BigTruckBigRV

      Howard
      Yes I have including his last mea culpa based on the comments he received from the one immediately prior. I know what LCI's procedure is - requires dropping the filon which I'm presuming will get done at Elkhart. JD needs to let the engineer talk more. And nobody says how much movement up into the nose cap is normal for the pinbox. After watching him interview the LCI EN, I had to wonder why LCI would approve the Goosebox for any chassis.
      2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar, factory gen, 8K axles with discs, W/D, Heat Pump, Gen 2 Goosebox, Battleborn
      2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin

      Comment


      • #4
        Back when I had a Titanium fifth wheel, the lippert frames had a few issues..not unlike now. What was suggested to you was the same testing that I did with my trailer back then to check the frame.
        It's called pinbox deflection. If I remember right, it was about 2010, the acceptable amount was 10mm. And if it was more than 10mm, the fault was almost 100% the gusseting of the vertical part of the frame where it meets the main part of the frame. The floor of the rest of the trailer so to speak.
        I tested by marking a line on the pinbox then lowering the trailer onto the hitch. How much the metal moved up into the nose was the deflection. Mine was only about 5mm so I was good.
        Hope this helps.
        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
        Electricians were created because engineers need heroes too....

        Comment


        • #5
          Scott'n'Wendy
          In this recent flurry of activity WRT frame flex, it has often been mentioned that this is not a "new" thing. Good to have an actual data point from several years back.

          Rob
          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            ajg617 Hi John,

            It makes sense that you would see more side-to-side movement of the front of the trailer in the rear view mirror, with a gooseneck than with a traditional 5th wheel hitch. The rotation point between the trailer and the truck with your hitch would be further from the bottom edge of of the front cap than with a traditional hitch.

            Rob
            Cate & Rob
            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
            2015 Reflection 303RLS
            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

            Comment


            • #7
              This might be a bit hard to setup and get to work, but placing a camera on the bed floor of the truck facing back at the trailer to watch twisting while traveling would be the ideal way. Even better would be 2 cameras setup on each side of the system with tape lines on the front wall area so you can see the differential motion between the ball and the bottom and the top of the pin box. Even a camera on the trailer pointing forward (tailgate removed so you can see the base of the hitch) where the camera rotates relative to the trailer showing twisting of the head might be informative.
              Joseph
              Tow
              Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
              Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
              South of Houston Texas

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
                This might be a bit hard to setup and get to work, but placing a camera on the bed floor of the truck facing back at the trailer to watch twisting while traveling would be the ideal way. Even better would be 2 cameras setup on each side of the system with tape lines on the front wall area so you can see the differential motion between the ball and the bottom and the top of the pin box. Even a camera on the trailer pointing forward (tailgate removed so you can see the base of the hitch) where the camera rotates relative to the trailer showing twisting of the head might be informative.
                I had planned to put a dash cam on the rear TV window. I can offset that to one side and switch sides in addition to one day travel with it in the center of the window (multiple days to get to Elkhart). What I was thinking of doing is putting blue painters tape (hope it doesn't rain) on each side of pinbox and marking off 1/4" lines unless there are pre-made and more visible versions. I don't know if I can get the angle correct from the window - will try it out and see. Have to leave the tailgate on as GD has asked we remove as much as possible (if the nose cap has to come off and the main ceiling electrical needs repair - dealer found a bare wire there and we still have one drop down light that goes on and off).
                2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar, factory gen, 8K axles with discs, W/D, Heat Pump, Gen 2 Goosebox, Battleborn
                2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ajg617 View Post
                  the main ceiling electrical needs repair - dealer found a bare wire there and we still have one drop down light that goes on and off).
                  From hydraulics to suspension to electrical..maybe frame....I'm beginning to think your trailer was assembled on a Friday before a long weekend.....
                  2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                  Electricians were created because engineers need heroes too....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
                    From hydraulics to suspension to electrical..maybe frame....I'm beginning to think your trailer was assembled on a Friday before a long weekend.....
                    Maybe or a Monday. Date on my build sheet was Wed 12/1/2021 after Thanksgiving week. I always presumed that was the date it rolled out the door. Could be just the day the build sheet was printed.
                    2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar, factory gen, 8K axles with discs, W/D, Heat Pump, Gen 2 Goosebox, Battleborn
                    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For what it is worth, GD has responded to the frame flex 'issue' being spammed all over YT with JD spearheading a very noticeable slant and it's on their website. JD is throwing a heart at a comment that all Momentums and Solitudes should be immediately recalled. Really? Any respect I had for his channel evaporated as his slant in the comments section is a personal crusade to have one YTber's 380FL repaired.

                      What nobody has answered is what are the specs to determine if it is safe to pull to the factory. I have this question into LCI now and am supposed to be receiving a call from their engineering staff on any measurements I can perform before towing to Elkhart next month.
                      2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar, factory gen, 8K axles with discs, W/D, Heat Pump, Gen 2 Goosebox, Battleborn
                      2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ajg617 View Post
                        What nobody has answered is what are the specs to determine if it is safe to pull to the factory. I have this question into LCI now and am supposed to be receiving a call from their engineering staff on any measurements I can perform before towing to Elkhart next month.
                        I would lower the trailer onto your hitch and see what the deflection is. Then make a decision, maybe GD will assist in that decision with the measurement provided. Your trailer is a fair bit heavier than the 25E30DS Titanium that I previously owned...but maybe we could extrapolate?

                        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                        Electricians were created because engineers need heroes too....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
                          I would lower the trailer onto your hitch and see what the deflection is. Then make a decision, maybe GD will assist in that decision with the measurement provided. Your trailer is a fair bit heavier than the 25E30DS Titanium that I previously owned...but maybe we could extrapolate?
                          LCI engineering is supposed to call next week. I also have a name in service (ex LCI employee) to call at GD. The Goosebox makes it a bit more complicated because no matter how well I line the ball up, the TV jumps when lowering. But I guess that may not matter because it's the end result that counts. Would just like an acceptable deflection measurement from either company. Don't think GD has it.

                          What I believe is happening is that one side (off-door) is more susceptible to abnormal movement than the other. I don't know if pinbox deflection would show that. LCI wants the filon removed to make measurements on both sides but overall deflection should be at least one data point.
                          2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar, factory gen, 8K axles with discs, W/D, Heat Pump, Gen 2 Goosebox, Battleborn
                          2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What do you mean by TV "jumps"? Do you mean the ball aligning to the pocket in the box? If so, have you tried the below procedure?

                            Have you tried hitching the TV to the Unit, Lifting the landing gear until they are free, then Un-hitching the TV and when you see the space between the GB and the bed start to increase (this would also be about when the TV stops moving vertically), then lowering again? One other trick I have found is to move the combination forward and rearward a few feet to relax the suspension. Install wheel chocks on the trailer and set the parking brake on the TV.
                            Joseph
                            Tow
                            Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                            Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                            South of Houston Texas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ajg617
                              Keep in mind with a goose box all of the rotations in on the ball. It is a lot lower than the typical 5th wheel plate so the movement is larger. It's actually one of the advantages of the goose ball in that it can take angle loads better. That's why horse trailers and equipment trailers use the goose box as it can go over very rough ground, and tolerate extreme angles.

                              So when looking in your mirrors you will see more movement side to side than with a typical king pin std hitch.. Its the nature of the beast. As for you wrinkles I have a few on my unit, both inside and out. I believe they are normal movement of the material as they expand and contract due to temperature and movement. Our units are designed to flex to some extent.

                              Hope this helps
                              Keith
                              2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X