Hello,

I am the unusual RVer who moved from a diesel (400 ISL) to gas. Our 7.3 with the 4.30 is fine pulling about 15K, with GCWR just under 23K and a rating of 26K. About half our miles are towing and half not towing. I agree a diesel is better for towing and 15K is about my limit for gas towing. For us, the 7.3 and 4.30 is the best option -- modest compromise towing and better when not towing. It climbs hills better than my 400 ISL, but that was at 38K. It is easy to maintain and (20K so far) has run very smoothly both towing and not towing. Good luck with your decision.

Best,

Charles

P,S. With the airbags at 40 PSI, DW says the ride is as good as the 40DP with eight air bags. As you can see, good ride was a "must have" for us. I also use the six camera option on every trip. Another "must have."

I would look at all three brands and see which one you like the best after research and driving them. My friends have new Dodges and Fords and I have chosen another new GMC for that reason. I don't want to deal with the death wobble as it's hard to get rid of on the trucks that have it nor do I want to deal with the CP4 fuel pump issues. My new GMC 3500 D-Max pulls smoothly like a freight train with the best ride and interior comfort. I am not one that subscribes to the need for the Tesla-like screens---no need to complicate the use of finding and accessing hidden menus behind many screens and clicks. I like it simple with knobs and things that work. My neighbor can tell stories about his new Ford and how they just can't figure out why his digital dash and cluster stop working. He has been told by Ford to "reboot" it when it acts up. No thanks! I'll take the smaller screen and the tactile buttons and knobs that work.

As far as gas and diesel....I've towed allot with both and I personally would never go back to towing anything with a gas engine. There are way too many advantages to towing with a diesel to include engine warranties, fuel economy, interior noise, exhaust vs. engine braking, resale value, lower stress when pulling, and the list goes on. My new truck gets over 21 MPG when empty and you will never see that with gas engines. One of my friends has the new Chevy 1500 Silverado with the mini D-Max and is getting nearly 40 MPG with it empty. Most people don't realize that the diesel engines are not working near as hard to do the work as gas engines thus the reason they last into the hundreds of thousands of miles. If I downsized and no longer needed a 3/4 or 1-ton truck for towing....I would still hands down get the 1500 with the mini D-max diesel. I have big block muscle cars from the 60-70s and love the gas engines in those cars but I don't want to tow with one especially here in CO at altitudes of 5K ft or higher. That's something to consider if you are going to tow outside of sea level locations. I've been in the right lane many times racing my gas engine up the hills at near red line while getting passed by the cars and diesel trucks going around me. Running a gas engine at redline for 10 mins at a time while pulling a very heavy load does cause wear to the engine over time. As an engine and car fanatic---I just can't be happy while that's occurring when I can run my diesel under those same circumstances but at 1700 RPM going up as fast as I could want to go!

Diesel is the only way to go. A diesel/ gas comparison is like a 2wd/4wd comparison. The added capability is amazing and you won't want to go back. Unless you have nothing to tow.
Once Ford got rid of the 6.0l diesel engine, all three brands hade reliable engines. I'm partial to cummins. Kind of mystified why Ford still puts cp4 pumps in new trucks when everyone else is recalling them.
Research cp4 if you are leaning Ford, just so you are familiar with the issue.
In my opinion, you can't go to far wrong with any of the three. See who has what you want at a price you can live with.

Jlawles2, Crespo and COReflection - thank you very much! Good stuff.

The only reason I was looking at the larger screens was for the surround camera system, it only comes with the larger screens, 12" vertical for Ram, 12" horizontal for Ford. And backup camera view. If its too small, whats the point? Otherwise, I do like individual knobs and toggles instead of hunting menu options and eyes off the road (!). One Ford XL I looked at to test drive, a sub model, had a screen smaller than my phone! ha. I have the HALO camera system that I really like but it gets clunky having the extra screen up front. I also use the aftermarket TST tire monitor system with valve stem transmitters. I am glad I have this vs. the truck system because my truck system went out a few days during my trip out west (?!) but my TST kept going flawlessly. I don't think the truck systems can monitor tire heat temp like my TST, I may be wrong.

I test drove a Ford SRW 350 Limited with the surround camera system. As jlawles2 said, the extra LB and wheelbase will be challenging. The surround camera view came in handy when backing in the space at the dealership, pretty cool feature. The long bed trucks add about 2.5-3 feet to my radius and curb-to-curb turning ability.

Death wobble?!?! WHat the heck is that? I'll google it. Is that like a shimmy or something up front? Hmmm.

I forgot to mention that I like the idea of the 5th wheel OE "puck" system for Ram and Ford, not sure if GM has that.

7.3 gas - I have looked very hard at this option, but it would be a dealer order situation, they just aren't around on lots at the Lariat trim. 7.3 gas would probably serve me fine at my expected weight ranges for this 280RS and anything next, but I'm liking the diesel option for -

1. possibility of better MPG, around town and towing although this would not be a commuter vehicle.
2. Exhaust braking system, something I don't have in the 6.4 gas
3. payload and towing capacities increase with the diesel packages in case we ever upgrade to an actual Reflection or Solitude.
4. The expected longevity and durability of the diesel.
5. 48/50 gallon tank
6. Along with 5 above - truck lane/size diesel pumps with plenty of entry/exit room.

cons I am noticing for diesel-
1. Oil changes. 10-12 quarts of oil for oil change ! I'll probably hit time intervals before mileage interval requirements. I Like to change my own oil but I can get a $100 oil change from the Ram dealer for the special 0W-40 synthetic, not too bad. I don't know what a diesel oil change would be. I would probably need to figure on at least double the cost, along with the filters.

2. I'm hearing of injector and pump issues, and the need for some extra add-on install item to prevent failures with one brand. Not sure how prevalent that problem is. I guess they all can have unique issues.

3. cost - yeah, about $9K extra for the basic non-HO Cummins or Powerstroke. $12k for the HO options on both. But, if this is going to be the truck for a while, and peace of mind, I'm willing to do that. Diesel is more per gallon but I'm hoping the better MPGs would help offset that.

4. Weight - the diesel options add more weight to the truck. I've noticed Ram or Ford have increased the GVWR for these options 400-600 lbs but I'm not sure if anything actually changed for the suspension (?!) For instance, GVWR of one brand goes from 11,400 to 12,300 just for adding diesel option, with the engine weighing around 500 lbs more. I don't think the braking or suspension changed, are they just adding GVWR on paper to keep payload consistent? I know trim packages can impact that as well. Still researching.

Thanks everyone!

All 3 brands should be good. Everyone here has outlined the many pros and cons. For us, diesel is a lot better because we live in the mountains. Towing capacity should be considered first. Maybe look at the small stuff like where the DEF fluid pour is, or whether there is a camera on the back of cab to assist with backing into the RV hitch (especially for a PullRite). Not sure how much you will be in your home area, but possibly ask others in your area their experiences with local service departments. See which one has best turning radius, although they may be close, if not the same. Seat comfort. Good luck with your search!

Death wobble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn4G0eQW5C0

Gm offers the puck system just like the other 2. I think all 3 are getting close to a "standard" for the puck spacing.

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If you see the $395 price, fair warning that is for the ball and chain anchor points ONLY. The under bed platform is a separate thing.

Death wobble is almost always from lifted trucks along with worn steering components. Have not heard of it much recently.
Any vehicle suspension that utilizes a track bar can have it happen if you modify or ignore wear.

Hear of it on jeep forums a lot. A lot of cheap lift kits available for jeeps.

As far as fuel economy, our Chevrolet gets around 18 non towing. We are in middle TN. Truck only has 9,000 miles on it. The biggest trip it has made towing with Mo was bringing it home from Gadsden , AL. We come over Monteagle Mountain and averaged 10.5 mpg.

The days of doing our own engine repairs are behind most of us (unless you are an up-to-date technician). So, the pros and cons of different engines comes down getting the best extended powertrain warranty you can find. This also means dealer oil changes and scheduled maintenance If you want a “no questions” coverage of a warranty claim.

Rob

I choose to stay away from a lot of the discussions about ABC trucks being better than XYZ truck. However there is a lot of Diesel love going on in this thread and although I understand that love is valid, I want to chime in in defense of those of us who have chosen gas engines.

I won't lie that I was worried about my gas engine the first time towing it into the mountains of Colorado but I was pleasantly surprised at how easily we handled both climbs and descents. Would a diesel engine handled it even easier? Sure. But I was never one single time unhappy with how our truck did, and we spent a decent amount of time towing over 7k feet. A few months ago we did a winter pass of Monteagle Mountain while it was snowing. The only thing holding us back while going up and down passes is me, not the capability of the truck.

Just wanted to post to make sure no one gets completely swayed away from gas because they're made to think they aren't capable of towing. Modern gas engines are plenty capable. Like anything in life, there are tradeoffs no matter which route you choose. We happen to love our 6.6L.

I'm surprised Ford hasn't added to the heavy duty lines a V8 version of their 3.5 Ecoboost engines in the half-tons. Scaling the power and torque up from the 3.5 to a 4.6 v8 by adding two more cylinders would be 530hp and 666ft-lbs.

Hi Scott----I could totally see changing the geometry on the lifted trucks and causing issues. I have three current friends---two with new Fords and one with a newer Dodge and all are stock and have the death wobble issue. They have been to the dealer multiple times without success yet. It happens when they are towing and even when the trucks aren't towing. One of the Fords is a dually and the other two trucks are SRW. I also agree that I have seen it multiple times on the Jeeps as well. I have never ridden in any of these trucks when they experienced the wobble but I am told that it's an experience that you will NEVER forget according to them and their wives!

My opinion on your pro's:

1-My 2020 F250 diesel gets 17/18 mpg with mixed hwy/city driving unloaded. Just city and you're at about14/15 mpg, with just highway (about 71/75 mph) your about 20/21 mpg. Towing I get 7.5-11 mpg depending on many factors Average is about 9.5 mpg. I typically drive 70 mph on highway while towing. I have the 10 speed tranny with 3.31 rear.
2-Exhaust brake is really nice. works really well until you hit a steep grade (about 7% or more). Still does work, but not near as noticeable. Overall I really like it.
3-Agree. I have a 3/4 ton and have a 30,000# GCVWR, 21,000# conventional towing and 19,000# 5th wheel/gooseneck towing. I can't find a gas to match.
4-In my opinion this depends on how well you maintain it. In the past (5.9 Cummins, 7.3 Powerstroke) they were bulletproof. You used and abused them and they kept ticking. Modern diesels are different. You need to take care of it, maintain it well and it should give you good, reliable service.
5-Short bed will have 35 gallon tank....but there are aftermarket 60 gallon tanks for shortbeds
6-If you do go with diesel, get the TSD Logistics EFS Fleet card. Im able to use at most truck stops and get discounted rates. FOr example, right now average price of diesel in my area is around $3.80 a gallon. With the fleet card I can go to a TA a few miles away and get the discounted rate of @3.35 a gallon. Plus the pumps are way faster


My opinion on your cons:

1- Manufacturer recommended Oil change intervals for diesels are typically every 10,000 miles. For gas it's typically 5,000 miles. If you follow those intervals it's almost a wash. However, with a diesel you need to change fuel filters (Ford recommend every 20,000 miles). This will cost you about $300 just for the fuel filters, then another $150 for oil change (if you have a dealership do it). I'm a little paranoid so I change oil every 5,000 miles and fuel filters/oil change every 10,000 miles.
2- Duramax did have injector issues (injector #4) with previous engines. I hear the current engine does not have this issue. Fuel pump issues stem from are the cp4 fuel pump. Ram is no longer using the cp4 and replacing all existing units cp4 pumps to an updated cp3 pump. They shouldn't have the issue. GM (Duramax) had major issues with the cp4 and switched to a Denso fuel pump. Ford continues to use the cp4 in all their Powerstrokes. Ford claims their engine design is different than both Cummins and the Duramax therefor doesn't have the same issues. I wouldn't count on that. I hear the issue is that the cp4 was designed for diesel with higher sulfur content than the ultra low sulfur diesel we use in the US. Our ultra low sulfur fuel does not contain the lubricants the cp4 was designed to use. So, regardless of which brand you choose (if you go diesel) I would always use a fuel additive like Hotshots, Archoil, etc which contain extra lubricants in your fuel.
3- Yeah, the cost. It's a lot.
4- You're exactly right. My F250 has a GVWR of 10,800# (I think you can get 11,350# GVWR with a GM 3/4 ton) to increase payload (High capacity towing option). Basically Ford put a 1 ton rear end on the 3/4 ton truck. I have the 1 ton rear diff/axles, the 1 ton spring pack (with overload spring), but 3/4 ton front end. Perhaps they do something similar with the 1 ton diesel packages.....upgrade some suspension/driveline components for the extra weight/capacity.

This is true and a good point. I was surprised when I got a black plastic case from GMC for the $395 when I ordered my truck and found the ball and two chain point anchors inside the case. In my last truck I had the B&W hitch that used the center gooseneck shank for mounting but I swapped out the base on that same hitch over to the puck mounted one and like it much better. I believe that it provides much better even support for the hitch rather than the one center mounting point.

Bigdog---I do understand your concern on the camera and viewing for that. My GMC does have the 360* camera system and the integrated TPMS system for the truck and the camper. BTW--it does show and monitor the pressure and temps of all the tires on the TV and the camper. I like that feature. On the rear camera...I am a bit disappointed with that system and think GM could do better there. I like the clarity and video quality of the GM rear backup camera system but I have no desire in running a video hardwired feed from the back of my camper under or over the fifth wheel and plugging in something else to my truck. I just ordered the new Haloview wireless camera and intend to try the screen on my dash or hanging from the truck rear view mirror. We will see what compromise I can find for that. I think some of the other trucks have better options for the rear view cameras. I want as few of screens as possible added to my ****pit while driving. One--it's more things to pay attention to, and two--I am now worried more than ever about theft wherever we go.