Well Cummins fans, here comes a 10 liter diesel.

Scott - I agree the 6.0 that was in the 04 and later is junk. Stay very far away. I kept mine until last year - a mistake. MY 6.7 is a beast and I an very happy so far with just over 12K miles. I just hate the DEF that all current diesels take.

How do you use your truck when you're not towing? Is it ever used as a "run around town" vehicle?

The GM HD truck production with the new interior should start any day now. Included in that update is the 10 speed transmission for the 6.6L gas engine, which is likely my next vehicle.

Reasons for gas for my application:

1. Cost. I'd have to drive a diesel for about 300k miles to "break even" on cost at current fuel prices
2. Simplicity. 6.6 has no AFM, no turbo, no fancy stuff. Just a good old strong-running American pushrod V8 with a solid track record towing heavy.
3. Usability. For every 300 mile tow I do with the RV attached, I do 10 runs to Home Depot 2 miles from my house. Diesels HATE that kind of duty cycle.
4. Servicability. I do my own oil changes and preventative maintenance. Easy on a gasser.
5. Performace. My GM 5.3L shocked me how well it did towing our 8000 lb TT through AZ, CO, and NM last summer. Yes, it revs a bit. I don't mind that. Those same engines live at 4500 RPM day in, day out in our watersports boats, often loaded heavily and with nothing but full throttle holeshots. The 6.6L with shorter rear gearing and the 10 speed shouldn't rev nearly as much with my towing application.

If your Ram 6.4 with 8 gears doesn't rev to the moon towing your RV, the GM 6.6 with 10 gears should do even better.

Just another thing to consider...

uwskier Well If they put the Allison behind the 6.6L gas, you can forget the trans service. The Allison APPROVED transmission is an internal filter no dipstick transmission. Also note that the big 3 are using 3.43:1 gears in the rears now on the non HEAVY towing packages. This means towing I think it locks out at least one of the overdrives. I think Jim was a dyno test technician and may have more knowledge if he reads this post.

I probably run 10% or more of my trucks annual mileage towing. My average trip is min 15 miles (we live in a small town with nothing "close"). EOT runs about 195 where ECT run 185 to and from work as read on the iDash since we all know the GM gauges LIE (don't believe me, romp it from a stand still to 75-80 mph and watch for the ECT to move). Pulling the 30 on flat (ish) ground the EOT jumps up to about 205-215 and ECT 190.

Oil change with me doing it is about $100 using Amsoil and a Donaldson Blue 2 qt filter. Holds 11 quarts of oil. Not really necessary, but I am a bit hard on my trucks at times. The Donaldson filter I run has over 2x the surface area on the filter media which helps with filtration as the oil is not pushed so hard through the media.

Anyone interested that uses Donaldson filters check out https://crossfilters.com (I have no affiliation with them, they are just a supplier for me). Savings hit when you buy 2 or more.

I'll be test driving a Chevy soon. Man, this decision is getting more difficult than I thought (but fun).
thanks

Don't rush it. Make sure you know all the plusses and minuses of each brand.

I would categorize this similar to buying the RV of ones choice. Check them all out and find the one that fits you and your usage best. Try not to be brand dependent as they all have something different to offer.

With that said, GO CHEVY!!!!!!!!

Brian

Yes, sometimes I neglect to look at the def gauge.... and sometimes it's pretty low which leads to a little "where can I find some def" anxiety.

I try to keep it over half full.

Especially between Edmonton and Dawson Creek and beyond to Watson Lake Is your shortage over yet - that what I was told last year.? I found Walmart does not carry it up there, just Canadian Tire and others. Also a lot of unknown brands to me - not certified. I had to be careful. I never did see it at any pumps either?

I was reading your post and intrigued by a couple of your reasons cited for staying with a gas truck.

First---can you show me the math of how it would be 300K miles to break even on the fuel charge differences? Here in CO when I went past the fuel stations this morning.....entry level unleaded fuel was $4.06/gal and diesel was $4.69/gal. That's roughly a $.60/gal difference in the fuel charges yet my truck gets about 8+ MPG better than a comparably equipped gas engine. I don't understand your numbers? One of my friends is getting over 40 MPH with his Silverado 1500 with the Minii Duramax 4x4 truck yet the comparable 5.3 gas engine would be lucky to get 15 MPG. I haven't heard anyone attempting to make a business case for a diesel on fuel economy alone.....that would take awhile to get there. Better fuel economy is a derived benefit not a driver for purchase.

Second----on the maintenance.....I have been working on cars for over 40 years, worked on them professionally, and now work on them as a side hobby in my shop. I do all my own repairs and maintenance. I would say that changing oil and maintaining a diesel costs more than a gas...mostly because of the quantity of oil in the crankcase, but I fail to see how maintaining a gas engine is "easier". You typically perform the same steps for regular maintenance like changing the oil and filter, greasing the truck and also replacing the fuel and air filters as needed. On a gas engine, there are ignition components to track as well where on a diesel, there are not. Help me understand that comment.

Lastly, sure....you can rev an engine for awhile and live with the high RPM sounds, noisy sounds in the truck cabin, driving slowly in the right-hand lane up the passes, and such....but if there is another better option for a towing vehicle that didn't require those things---why not check it out and purchase it? I had an 8.1L BBC in one of my first trucks here in CO and I would pull 8K lbs all the time with it in the summer. I was at 4800-5000 RPMs with it all the time going up the passes. I loved that sound of that BBC engine and certainly the enormous power it has when it was empty. I also loved the loud flowmaster dual exhaust that was on the truck too. I loved it all to a point.....and then I no longer wanted to hear and feel the sound of an engine screaming up and down the mountains for hours to pull that load or larger loads that I upgraded to later. I also very much enjoy the use of the diesel exhaust brake vice an engine brake on a gas. It's way more comforting to use coming down the mountains here in CO. I do agree with your sentiment about shortripping a diesel--they do not like that at all so I can see your point there.

I think in summary that each person has to decide if their towing and pulling needs justify a diesel and whether they can afford it. Diesels do cost more but the advantages are very significant over gas if you tow anything...and especially if you tow anything at high altitude. There is a premium that's paid-up front for the diesel engine and those benefits but there are also things like better fuel economy, better engine warranty, and much longer engine life of the diesel vs. the gas because diesels are not working near as hard to provide over twice the power as a gas engine. A crescent wrench can also be used as a hammer in a pinch but a hammer is a much better tool than a wrench if you want to pound in a nail.

Lively conversation with lots of good points!
I'll add in to consider your local dealership options. Have driven Ford, Dodge, and Chevy, currently own a 3500 Duramax and a significant part of my choice was who I'd be dealing with for repairs that required dealership support. Every brand has it's good and bad points, but sooner or later you'll need dealer support so regardless of what you drive, if you're going to be dealing with people that don't have a good reputation it's not going to be a pleasant experience.
Giving a plug for the diesels, have towed car, cargo, and one time a large equipment trailer with gas & diesel over the years and am extremely impressed with how my 2019 3500 Duramax & Allison tows. Best way to manage fuel consumption and speed on hills, both going up and down, has been to utilize the cruise control. Truck does an amazing job managing the braking and applying power as needed which allows me to focus on the road more.
Chris

I'll see if I can find the spreadsheet later. It's on my other computer. But where I live, gas is $3.15/gal and diesel is $4.59. That more than eats up any fuel economy advantage.

I don't ever sit in the right lane with my gas truck. Newer trucks have FAR better cooling than your 8.1 BBC did. Even here in Arizona, my trans temp hasn't gone over 205f in the left lane doing 60 MPH up a 6% grade passing all the big rigs in the right lane with their hazards on. I'll try to do a screen recording in the Torque app next time I do one of those runs. New gassers aren't your father's gassers.

All this is to say, there are options. If my truck didn't have to double as a daily driver, or if I was full timing, I'd FOR SURE have a diesel.

Really good points. I'm narrowing my focus a little. I do not live in the mountains nor have to deal with extreme elevations here in northern Virginia, and I don't intend to tow back out west. (Pie Town, NM was 8K feet but level) The majority of my tows will be in the crescent from VA thru the Carolinas, to GA and AL, maybe to Texas a few times for family. Not a lot of elevation or gradient to worry about. The diesel is a great towing option, but I will only put about 15K a year on this vehicle so I don't think I would get the full benefit for the cost. I would love a big honkin' diesel beast but I don't know if I can justify it with my actual needs.

BTW, that dash layout I saw online for the 2024 Chevy looks pretty nice!

still looking...

Bigdog,

If you decide on the 7.3, you will need to order the F-250 or F-350. I suggest:2023 Super Duty®
F-350® LARIAT
SUMMARY
PAINTS4
Iconic Silver Metallic
$0
POWERTRAINS4
7.3L 2 Valve DECVT NA PFI V8 Gas Engine
$0
4X4
$0
TorqShift® Ten-Speed Automatic with Selectable Drive Modes
$0
4.30 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio
$430
PACKAGESS4
Tow Technology Package
$925
Chrome Package
$1,240
360-Degree Camera Package
$0
5th Wheel/Gooseneck Hitch Prep Package
$550
EXTERIORS4
20" Chrome PVD Aluminum Wheels
$0
LT275/65Rx20E BSW A/T
$0
Trailer Tow Mirrors - Power Folding with Autofold, PowerScope® Telescoping, Power Glass with Heat and Turn Signal
$0
6" Angular Bright Anodized Step Bar
$0
Tailgate Step
$375
Tough Bed® (spray-in bedliner)
$595
Privacy Glass - Fixed Rear
$0
Window - Rear Power-Sliding Glass with Defrost and Privacy Glass
$0
Defrost Rear Window - With Fixed and Privacy Glass
$0
Chrome Front and Rear Step Bumper
$0
Remote Start System
$0
Chrome Exhaust Tip
$0
Pre-Collision Assist with Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) and Forward Collision Warning
$0
Reverse Sensing System
$0
Alternator – 190 Amp
$0
LED Box Lighting
$0
INTERIORS4
Black Onyx
$0
Leather-Trimmed 40/Console/40 Seats
$0
Floor Mats – Color Coordinated Carpet
$0
Cruise Control
$0
120-Volt/400-Watt AC Outlet
$0
Universal Garage Door Opener
$0
B&O® Sound System by Bang & Olufsen® with HD Radio™ (8 Speakers including subwoofer)
$0
SiriusXM® with 360L
$0
SYNC® 4 with Connected Built-In Navigation (3-Years of Service)
$0

​

I agree except get the LED headlights (you will love them), Save $ on the spray in liner and go with the Bedrug impact bed mat. Also go for the max output dual alternators - stock if you get the instant cab heat that is a great option. Personally I skipped the chrome package - but you may prefer it. If you want a rolling locking bed cover that can be locked in any position I love my Retrax PRO manual one that I have.Do not get the Ford offered ones. I also recommend the Camper package if available - it adds a HD rear sway bar for not much money. It may require 18" wheels which might not be an option. It really helps in towing. I am adding it to my truck. Also max out the GVW so you get the best springs. My truck cam through at 11400.

On thing in choosing - make double sure the seats fit you.