I'm assuming you passed. Hang in there - next week should be a gas............................................... ............................................. I'm sorry - could not help myself - yep back to my corner

Keith

Does the coaching get a little sketchy as the repair time lengthens?

Week 3 (Day 11)
Mon, 27 Sep

Started into propane. A couple of takeaways from the day.

Break into the propane system? Four tests are required.
Caps are from my notes, as Bob (the instructor) strongly emphasized those points.

I should add at this point that Bob worked for a propane company for years, so he's exceptionally knowledgeable and has a significant amount of personal experience on this particular topic

Stove tops have a secondary regulator that takes the 11" WC to 10" WC. The actual purpose of that extra regulator is to shut off the gas if the primary regulator's pressure should rise too high. (I forget the exact value, but the stove's propane piping cannot handle >18" WC, so that secondary regulator is a safety device.)

Puppy gas can set off the LP Gas Detector! No kidding.

Finally, and probably the most important (which I've read @Cate&Rob write about in the past) is the boiling point of propane is -44F. It draws in the ambient temperature through the cylinder at the liquid level. Without going into too much detail and boring everyone, a summary slide with "LP Truism's" said it best:

Tues, 28 Sep (Day 12)

Hands-on training in the morning. We got to play with stove tops and a (self-purchased) manometer. We did the four tests (Lock On, Line Pressure, Lock Off, and Drop Pressure). There was even some excitement as one stove had a leak in the test fitting, so when the students lit a burner to reduce the pressure (for the Drop Pressure check) there was a momentary marshmellow-roasting moment (aka "small fire"). Rattled the guys but it really was no big deal--completely contained within the stove top. Turned off the propane bottle and no more fire.

After lunch we went through DOT cylinders and ASME tanks. Bob was quite insistent on the terminology--which he even messed up so we had to razz him about it.

Learned a lot about cylinders. Topics included the proper way to purge (and why), how to properly fill a cylinder and tank, the safety devices and how they work, the purpose for the fixed liquid level gauge (which is actually just a tube with a small relief hole in the valve) and more theory including Boyle's Law and Charles' Law (google if you're interested).

The two things that surprised me.
Howard

Appreciate the logic of having the valves face towards the rear...... and how the logic/common sense side of it has become "required".
And while I agree with what a neighbors teenage son said several years ago, "Common sense had bcome so uncommon it should be labeled a superpower"...... people have the right to make poor choices.
Where would YouTube videos come from if they couldn't?!

Howard
I vaguely remember in an OSHA course the valves (if in a cabinet) need to face so the fitting and valve is readily accessible and the cabinet cant be locked. So much for the pay to get a bottle venders where everything is locked. Had to do with valve placement for rescue to get to. Something to do with the way the door opened. But I could be very wrong - that was years ago. So it could be a DOT reg or fire department regulation. But I agree in my other 5th wheel the valves faced forward towards the door as they were in the front compartment. Then again the way they were placed access to the valve and fittings was unrestricted.

Wed, 29 Sep (Day 13)
Covered regulators today. I know a heck of a lot more tonight than I did this morning about them!

Rob ( Cate&Rob ) has informed this forum in many threads about all the safety features built into DOT cylinders and the connecting lines. One of these features is the prevention of excessive flow. The action when the safety feature cuts in due to too much propane flow is called slugging. What surprised me is the safety device is built into the high-pressure line (under the ACME nut) that runs between the cylinder and regulator, it's not in the cylinder. I'd assumed it was--nope!



So...it is possible to slug the system by turning on the DOT cylinder too fast. (I always wondered if this was really true--and it is!)

What I was also surprised to learn is that the output of the second stage of the regulator is adjustable. That means if a LOCK ON test shows the WC a bit high (or too low), it can be adjusted to 11" WC. Let me hasten to add that without the proper tool (manometer) and training this is not something an owner should mess with. It's not rocket-science, but knowing what you're doing (and why) is important.

The day ended by getting to try our hands at making a flared copper fitting. I didn't take a picture of mine...let's just say I need a bit more practice. There are cool tools available online to make this easier, but not sure if I'll ever need to make flared copper fittings so not going to buy anything at this time.

The day ended with a review of all the material. Bob hinted we'd be getting into the water systems probably tomorrow...which means a test on propane is likely in the morning. So I'm signing off for now and getting back to studying!

Howard

I would imagine if the trailer did not have a cover over the propane bottles having the valve facing back (collar) forward would protect both the valve and the hose from something coming up off the road. I the trailer does have a cover the I believe it really doesn't matter and is just as safe either way.

I think the intention is to point the valve in such a way that any accidental discharge is pointed in a safe direction. I.E. away from hot exhaust.

Thurs, 30 Sep (Day 14)
Review and then the LP exam this morning (I passed).

We are now into my absolute favorite topic--plumbing (NOT!). Nothing cosmic so far--all the introductory information is (for the regular forum members here) what I'd consider "basic info", especially if they've read Rob's plumbing documents or followed his posts on the topic. Hopefully we'll get through this information relatively quickly.

One item I did learn is that the Shurflo pump that is on most Grand Design trailers is repairable. The "head" separates from the motor. The head unit can be disassembled and the individual pieces replaced (like the diaphragm). For a DIY'er it might be worth it to try a repair, but if paying a repairman I think I'd just replace the entire pump if there was a problem. (Labor is $$$$!)

Howard

howson will the course include sessions on business practices? Bookkeeping, record keeping, payment methods.......

No--not formally as part of the class. Not every attendee will start their own business. Some are here so they can work on their own coach, some will go to work for a dealer, and some will start their own business. We have had a few graduates stop in that have their own business to tell us their story. One woman graduated on Friday and went to work on Saturday (started her own business). She's a "go getter"! (No prior business experience.)

TedS

Glad you doing well Howard

Ted
As for starting a business I would suggest for folks to look for a SBA (small business administration ) office or local chamber of commerce. There are many state/county/local ones set up and they can provide classes and partnering to get you business up and running. Most colleges offer classes too. My local SBE helped me get my hay business up and running and I was partnered with a local operation who helped get my books set up. There are also Federal grants (free money if you want to do the paperwork) out there to get going. Last having a small business LLC has huge tax advantages as well as limiting liability to the business. Very important to limit personal liability and keep things separated.

Hope this helps folks
Keith

Fri, 1 Oct (Day 15)
We raced through a lot of topics today. PEX, the various ways to connect the tubing (Bob likes Aqualocks the best--but they are pricey!). Sharkbite fittings are frowned on since they were not made to withstand twisting forces. I'll stick to the relatively inexpensive compression rings since I've had good success to date. I can see the upside, though, of the Aqualock on a fitting that may need to be disconnected. I'm thinking places like where the water line connects to the toilet, etc.

A relatively long time was spent discussing the noise associated with water pumps. (Surprising--not a hot topic on this forum that I can remember discussing frequently.)

What really surprised me was nothing was said about the "soft hose" used in RVs and how to properly fix a leak where this soft hose meets PEX. "Surprised" could be replaced with "stunned". Leaks caused by this common configuration in RVs is definitely something discussed here over and over and over and over again. I'll critique what I consider an oversight as part of a (constructive) critique at the end of the course.

We also briefly discussed fixtures, accumulators, sizing of the water lines, the difference between fresh water and waste/vent tubing, venting systems including the AAV, traps (including the "Hepco", or waterless trap) and the slope required in a drainage system. Here's where I learned something new--the fittings bought at the store come "pre-sloped" with a built-in 1/4" per foot slope. Note how the fitting below, what I'd call a "90 degree adapter", has the built-in slope.



We then covered waste tanks and termination valves (the latter being another of my "favorite" topics).

Next week we'll get to do hands-on plastic welding. Looking forward to that--I have a split washer tank (at the top) I'd like to try and repair and a Camco tote that's split, too. Bob mentioned in passing that a Harbor Freight welding tool works well--I'll let you know how it goes. Yoda always needs another tool to buy.

Howard

That would be a sanitary tee to direct flow downwards.
I share your 'love' of plumbing.