Bent front jack repair

[Jlawles2]

Dan, it looks like the bracket is not attached at the bottom. This could be a contributing factor to the issue. As stated, what does the top of the jack look like inside the front bay?

[CaptDan]

Everything "looks" OK. I've "eyeballed" every conceivable angle to spot any bends - none found (that I can get me head/eyeballs to). and yes both brackets extend about 1-2" at the bottom where you can get your figures between the bracket and I beam. Now that I've edited my "signature' - I think - I am going to take some more pics.

[JBill9694]

I agree with Yoda , get some blocking under the Web sections. It won't hurt and will give you a degree of comfort as you work on finding the problem.

As howson , mentioned in post 6, the bolts securing the jacks to the bracket could be loose (Mine were surprisingly so the first time I checked them), so I suggest making sure that they are properly torqued, and might as well check the bolts on the other jacks while your at it. It is not clear from Post #1 if the jacks have always been at this steep a rake or if it has occurred over time. If over time, this could point to loose bolts.

The Web Sections, like every thing else has have mill tolerances. Here is a link to one article that provides guidance on the tolerances, 30758_steelwise_tolerances_web.indd (aisc.org). Most of these tolerances can be checked using a 2' carpenters level and a tape measure, goes easier with two people.

The mounting bracket was probably fabricated to fit the ideal beam. If the beam is not perfect, even if in tolerance, and bracket was not trimmed to account for this twist during installation, then this could exacerbate the problem. Finding out what angle from vertical the bracket is suppose to be might help determine if this is a fabrication/installation problem. Maybe examining other trailers as Cate&Rob suggest in Post #4 would help. If your unable to do this yourself, then maybe your dealer/repair shop/ GD/ Lippert can help. Another possibility with the bracket could be wrapping during fabrication or installation. Hard to check this with the jacks in place but look for bows or bulges on the faces of the bracket.

Hopefully the above will help in determining the cause of the problem and determining what corrective action to take.

[CaptDan]

John - Thanks - will look into. Luckily, the front of the rig is only about 2 feet off the ground - so the angle of attack for the jack is not too much. However, I'm planning on going to Home depot/Lowes/auto and look into some kind of jack to place under that corner. I suppose one of those 5th wheel pin "stands" would be helpful but not sure if they are designed to hold a lot of weight. Am calling Lippert on Monday to discuss. Our jacks seemed to be a little angled to start with - (1-2 degrees) but not 7 degrees (approx) as the right is now. I'll check the links now.

[CaptDan]

Sorry - some of my posts aren't getting thru. See attached pics

[Jlawles2]

Dan, I have used a bottle jack from Tractor supply to hold up the front corner of the camper while changing blocking under the jack. Those plastic blocks used for leveling are helpful.

No the pin stabilizers are not designed to carry pin weight. I don't think the pyramid stabilizers are designed for the full load either. I suggest some type of blocking and a jack stand.

[Yoda]

Sorry - some of my posts aren't getting thru. See attached pics

It sure looks like the mounting frame (C-channel is tweaked out at the bottom corner on the right side. Lower corner is further out from the main frame that the photo on the left is. Send these photos to Lippert and GD.

[Jlawles2]

Dan, Have you put a straight edge (level or something similar) along the hydraulic tube path on the outboard of the cylinder and checked to see if the rod is bent or deflected (rod should be parallel to the cylinder)? If the rod is bent, it is possible that it will still function in and out normally with lots of noise. As the bend progresses, it will most likely eventually cause seal failures in the rod gland and the piston (internal) which can result in the inability to raise the trailer or the inability to retract the jack fully.

I am concerned that the jacks are not PLUMB when extended when new. This can cause issues as the jack extends it puts pressure on the gland seals and rod.

[CaptDan]

Thanks - Will be sending all the pics to Lippert (and insurance). However, the photos don't really show what I can physical see. i.e. what seems bent is really straight and visa versa. I could tell when lining up the camera screen - shaking my head because the image wasn't showing what I could clearly see. My guess is we won't know for sure what/where is screwed up until they remove the jack.

[CaptDan]

Joseph: Unfortunately (or fortunately) my jacks are only extended about 12" right now. I placed a level on the piston arm and it does not seem to be bent - at least over that short run. I would think that it has to be bent (albeit very little) after experiencing that incident and that is probably why it makes horrible noises when in operation. Same with the other side and it's in it's normal position but was probably stressed as the rig tilted to its side.

[Country Campers]

I do not see anything in the pictures that would make me question the mounting of the jack. I am wondering if it is an optical illusion. These jacks do angle out slightly and sitting on the right sloping ground you could get the " that looks terrible" thought. Do you have any pics of it sitting on level ground?

Brian

[Jlawles2]

Dan, if the ram on the jack is bent, it could be that the bend is inside the housing. That is why I was referencing using the housing as a base for the straight edge and measuring the distance from the straight edge to the extended portion of the ram at the gland (housing exit) and then at the ground.

Don't know if the jacks are true hydraulic cylinders, but when you get the load off the jacks, before fully retracting, see if you can turn the ram. If so, when you lower it, just before it make contact with the ground make a mark, then turn the ram 180 and see if the foot is still on the mark. This may give you an indication if the ram is bent.

[CaptDan]

Will do. We have to go to Home Depot and get some jack stands. The "bracket" is definitely 5 degrees "off" from the angle of the the I beam. However, i can't believe the ram is not bent.
Will do as you suggest when I can get some support to replace the jacks.

[CaptDan]

Update. It took 3 weeks to get our replacement jacks. Unfortunately the one mounting bracket we needed for the front right was the wrong kind. Now debating whether to put the new one on before replacing the bracket. Up to yesterday, I leaned towards replacing the bracket first - now not so sure. Had an auto-body guy set up to cut off the bracket and installing the new one, unfortunately this morning I noticed that the existing bracket is welding both to the frame but also to two vertical pieces of flat bar which are also welded (on their sides)to the frame. If I have the guy burn off the bracket, those two "supports" will be damaged. Irritating enough, Lippert doesn't carry the two small pieces of flat bar and claim ignorance regarding "who" installed them. They claim it must be GD. I'm calling GD tomorrow but not to confident they will state that they are installed at GD (and "why"). Lippert aftermarket manuals show hydraulic jack brackets being welded directly only the frame without mention of these two supports. Note: there is also a channel bar support at the bottom which the bracket seems to rest on (but is not welded(?)). Without anyone explaining what/why these supports are there for - I'm on my own to guess. Am going to a real welding shop tomorrow to see if they can fabricate similar to what is there and have them install the new bracket. Am going to have the new jack installed prior to the new bracket be installed since I'm assuming we are going to have to modify the bracket and/or supports to ensure that the jack is properly aligned 3-5 degrees from vertical. Lippert hasn't been particularly helpful and one guy claims my frame must be bent without providing me with any info or drawing to check to see if it is. First guy a couple weeks confirmed that the frame is normally bent in at the top of the frame by 3 degrees to help get the jacks to lean outwards. After that guy, the next guys weren't so helpful and/or claimed the frame is bent. I've measured it about 20 times and more often than not get the 2-3 degrees (on both sides). What they don't mention is that the brackets are also offset by an additional 2 degrees - which obviously gives you at least 5 degrees (by my math). Mine is 7-8 degrees - so obviously I'm getting an extra 2 degrees from somewhere. I hope GD can provide some tech assistance else I'm screwed and on my own. p.s. a Momentum 395came into the campsite this morning. I noted how his front jacks were angled out and asked to see if he had supporting flat bar attached where his bracket was attached to the frame - yep - both sides.

[Jlawles2]

I find it hard to believe that they would intentionally install the jacks not vertical. Any angle on the mounting of the jacks will lead to side load in the jacks. If the tops of the jacks were leaned out a touch to account for the frame twisting inward it would make more sense, but again that puts side load on the jack (NOT GOOD FOR THE INTERNALS).