12v Fridge + Factory Solar Panel

[Lhinaz71]

I was originally really excited about the 12v Fridge and 165w Factory Solar panel on my 2022 Imagine 2670MK. After a week of dry camping, I can't say that I'm excited about it anymore.

Short story:
Good for keeping your battery topped off on your way to campsite and between campsites. Not good for much else.

Long story:
Fearing the dealer included 24 Group size battery wasn't enough, I picked up a second 24 Group size battery prior to our trip and joined them in parallel. The night before the trip we turned on the fridge. The morning of the trip we put in our food which was already cold as we transferred from our home fridge to the RV fridge. Got to the campsite, and battery levels were full. Before we went to bed I checked the battery levels and it was low. Checked on it through the night, and we had below 10.5 volts by 2am. We transferred everything from the fridge to the freezer portion to keep things from spoiling.

Our unit came with the GE 12v Fridge. It is power hungry. There are four settings: Off, Cool, Cold, and Coldest. Cold is the recommended setting. At this setting, the fridge runs constantly. At Cool, it will stop running and just turn on long enough to keep things cool. From my non-scientific calculations (using a thermometer with no particular methodology), this was about 42 degrees. Recommended is below 40 degrees or bacteria starts to grow exponentially.

We had to run a generator in the morning and in the evening to keep the battery topped off to keep the Fridge happy. At night, we would then transfer the food to the freezer and turn the setting to cool just to keep our food from spoiling.

Not impressed.

YMMV

[Cate&Rob]

Lhinaz71

As you have discovered, there are three parts to this. 1) Power use by the fridge. 2) Power supply by the solar panels and 3) Power storage by the batteries. Grand Design supplies 1 & 2 but 3 is left up to the dealer. Most dealers do not understand the amp hours of storage capacity required to make 1 & 2 balance out. There are many threads on this forum about properly sizing battery banks and solar charging. If you use the search tool in the upper right corner on key words, you will find these discussions.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

Rob is spot on with his analysis.

According to the General Electric specifications, the 9.8 cubic foot refrigerator consumes 13.5 amps! If running continuously at the coldest setting, 13.5 amps x 24 hours is 324 amps!!!! Let's hope that is way overstated. Let's say you're running at the "cold" setting and it's using 10 amps per hour, or 240 amps in a full day's cycle. There are very few owners who will have the battery bank and solar panels to handle this load along with all the other 12V loads.

The single 165 watt solar panel will only provide about 50 amps of charging per day. So this is a defeceit of 190 amps. You'd need at least 5-6 panels to recharge your batteries, and you'd need at least three LiFePO4 batteries for this load.

Cate&Rob
howson
ncitro
Country Campers

Moderators - Did I miss the announcement about using GE 12V refrigerators?

Spec Sheet for the 9.8 cubic foot refrigerator. Note the power consumption under the Power/Ratings section. (Click on the Specs & Details tab).
https://www.geappliances.com/applian...tor-GPV10FGNBB

Jim

[Country Campers]

This is the first I have heard of the GE 12 v dc fridge. It does not surprise me though given the supply and demand stage we are in.

Brian

[howson]

TucsonJim -- what was the size of the refrigerator you tested for GD?

The reason I ask is the Dometic 10 cu ft "RV" refrigerator's specs show >= 15A (!). https://www.dometic.com/en-us/outdoo...dmc4101-242459

The Furrion 10 cu ft is 11A https://furrion.com/products/10-cu-f...n-refrigerator

The Everchill's 11 cu ft manual shows >=15A. https://www.wayinterglobal.com/colle...tainless-steel

So it looks like the 12V compressor technology when running draws about 160W. How often the compressor runs will depend on how well it's insulated and the environment where installed.

Your conclusion where you wrote:

• There are very few owners who will have the battery bank and solar panels to handle this load along with all the other 12V loads. The single 165 watt solar panel will only provide about 50 amps of charging per day.

So this is a deficit of 190 amps. You'd need at least 5-6 panels to recharge your batteries, and you'd need at least three LiFePO4 batteries for this load.

is almost understated. :(

[TucsonJim]

TucsonJim -- what was the size of the refrigerator you tested for GD?

The reason I ask is the Dometic 10 cu ft "RV" refrigerator's specs show >= 15A (!). https://www.dometic.com/en-us/outdoo...dmc4101-242459

The Furrion 10 cu ft is 11A https://furrion.com/products/10-cu-f...n-refrigerator

The Everchill's 11 cu ft manual shows >=15A. https://www.wayinterglobal.com/colle...tainless-steel

So it looks like the 12V compressor technology when running draws about 160W. How often the compressor runs will depend on how well it's insulated and the environment where installed.

Your conclusion where you wrote:

• There are very few owners who will have the battery bank and solar panels to handle this load along with all the other 12V loads. The single 165 watt solar panel will only provide about 50 amps of charging per day.

So this is a deficit of 190 amps. You'd need at least 5-6 panels to recharge your batteries, and you'd need at least three LiFePO4 batteries for this load.

is almost understated. :(

Good points Howard.

Actual Consumption vs. spec current don't appear to be lining up. I tested the Norcold DC10 refrigerator. I just checked the specs for that reefer and current draw is 8.3 amps (6.2 night mode). But my ACTUAL current usage is approximately 60 amps per 24 hours. The ratings must be when the compressor is actually running. If mine was running at max current, it would be 199.2 amps per day, and not 60. So the duty cycle appears to be 3.32:1. Using this ratio for the GE reefer, 324 ÷ 3.32 = 97.6 amps (in 24 hours). So much less battery and solar power are needed vs. a continuous duty cycle.

Back to my corner...

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

For many owners, there will be a significant pre-trip length of time where they pull the RV out of storage and start up a warm fridge. The fridge compressor will run continuously until the interior (and the contents) are down to set temperature. If the trailer is not plugged into shore power for this cool down period, this will significantly draw down the battery(s) particularly if it is overnight where the solar panels are producing nothing. In the "old days" the fridge would be switched to propane for this pre-trip cool down . . . this is no longer possible.

Rob

[ncitro]

I haven't seen an announcement but we were touring rigs at Lazy Days in Tampa a few weeks ago to check out what was new access I did see the GE in several of them.

[Paul & Deb]

I need to do some more research but, here's some real world data I have. I camped in the desert for 5 days in February. I have the Furrion 12v fridge. I have 412 ah of Lithium. In addition to the fridge running 24 hours a day, the 3000 watt Mulitplus ran 24 hours a day, the microwave ran each day for probably 1/2 hour, Keurig coffee maker ran about 8 cups a day, television/Blu-ray player and soundbar ran about 3 -4 hours a night and an hour at least in the morning.

By abut 8 or 9 am my SOC would be about 70% never lower.

30% of 412 ah is only 124 ah.

Where is my math bad? What am I missing?

I'm just providing the info but I was pleasantly surprised at how well I thought the fridge performed and it wasn't nearly the power hog I thought it might be.

[howson]

I need to do some more research but, here's some real world data I have. I camped in the desert for 5 days in February. I have the Furrion 12v fridge. I have 412 ah of Lithium. In addition to the fridge running 24 hours a day, the 3000 watt Mulitplus ran 24 hours a day, the microwave ran each day for probably 1/2 hour, Keurig coffee maker ran about 8 cups a day, television/Blu-ray player and soundbar ran about 3 -4 hours a night and an hour at least in the morning.

By abut 8 or 9 am my SOC would be about 70% never lower.

30% of 412 ah is only 124 ah.

Where is my math bad? What am I missing?

I'm just providing the info but I was pleasantly surprised at how well I thought the fridge performed and it wasn't nearly the power hog I thought it might be.

TucsonJim 's not online so I'll take a shot at answering.

The reason your refrigerator didn't consume more of the battery bank's aH is there was probably a long "off time" in the duty cycle due to 1) the time of year thus lower ambient temperatures and 2) two adults that likely don't stand in front of the refrigerator with the door open while gaping at the contents. (Anyone that has or had a teenager will understand.)

When the refrigerator's compressor is not running there is very little power being consumed. All the ratings discussed in this thread related to power consumption are related to the "on time" in the duty cycle. (A cycle is a combined "on" and one "off" period.)

Put that frig on the back porch on a hot summer day directly in the sun and monitor the power consumption--it will be way more than what was consumed in the desert in February tucked inside an RV.

Make sense?

[ncitro]

I think you're probably right Howard. For the OP to see the numbers he saw I'm thinking it must have been warmer. He claimed that in the lowest power mode he was not keeping it below 40, and at the next coolest seeing the compressor was running nonstop. Sounds like to dry camp with that fridge in warmer temps the rig will need more solar, more batteries, or both.

[Cate&Rob]

Paul & Deb howson
Hi Paul,

I suspect that Howard is correct . . . your fridge was probably operating on a very low duty cycle, except perhaps mid-day when the solar panels were covering the higher energy use by the fridge.

Rob

[howson]

gtippett -- moved your post and Rob's response to it's own thread. You'll find it here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...r-refrigerator