120VAC Wiring Concern

[TucsonJim]

While working on my Victron install, I pulled the breaker box to properly route the new 6 AWG wiring. I found an issue that I've been diving into, and would like the input from any licensed electricians that may be on the forum.

When I pulled the cover off my breaker panel, I found several instances of double lugged neutral wires. Although this is not good practice, it falls into a gray area regarding the National Electrical Code. In 2002, the NEC specifically called out a prohibition of double lugging conductors. It was clearly written into the code. But in the 2023 NEC, the paragraphs have changed, and I can't seem to locate the paragraph now. To muddy the water further, there is some language that allows double lugged conductors if the panel manufacturer designed the panel to accommodate it. My panel is from WFCO, and I can't seem to find any documentation on the panel specifications.

It took me about five minutes to move the double lugged wires to their own slot.

Do any of you electricians have a read on the code requirements for this topic?

Note: There is not 6 AWG feed into the box below - It's currently being reworked.



Jim

[TribForce]

I'm not an electrician but I am good at research. Maybe this section will help.

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations
Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor. Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor.

I found this article: https://www.ahouseonarock.com/is-a-d...re-up-to-code/


Edit: That may be from the 2002 NEC book but I think it still applies. Every page I can find on the subject references that older copy.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Each neutral (white, grounded conductor) wire should be secured separately under its own lug/set-screw terminal in an electric panel, per National electrical Code (NEC 408.41).
408.41 says Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

American code seems pretty clear to this Canadian electrician?

But I don't know about RVIA code? And if they have to follow 408.41?

[Yoda]

While working on my Victron install, I pulled the breaker box to properly route the new 6 AWG wiring. I found an issue that I've been diving into, and would like the input from any licensed electricians that may be on the forum.

When I pulled the cover off my breaker panel, I found several instances of double lugged neutral wires. Although this is not good practice, it falls into a gray area regarding the National Electrical Code. In 2002, the NEC specifically called out a prohibition of double lugging conductors. It was clearly written into the code. But in the 2023 NEC, the paragraphs have changed, and I can't seem to locate the paragraph now. To muddy the water further, there is some language that allows double lugged conductors if the panel manufacturer designed the panel to accommodate it. My panel is from WFCO, and I can't seem to find any documentation on the panel specifications.

It took me about five minutes to move the double lugged wires to their own slot.

Do any of you electricians have a read on the code requirements for this topic?

Note: There is not 6 AWG feed into the box below - It's currently being reworked.



Jim

Good Grief Jim -as you know I am not an expert but have been around a lot of wiring projects in my engineering experience (lift stations and pressure sensors for weigh in motion set ups).

Me thinks you need to have a serious talk with GD on sloppy wiring. The amount of exposed wire is a problem to me. A properly set wire stripper would be a benefit. Looks like this was a Friday 4:30 build. Why the angles and double lugging when other terminals are available. From what I remember mine is not like that. Beginning to wonder about GD quality when I see this. BTW does GD track who wired you unit? I think a good old fashion scolding is in order.

Just my 02

Sorry to see this on your new unit

Keith

[acoleman43]

TucsonJim I'm not a professional either....even if OK per code, for piece of mind I would clean it up. You will never have to worry or think about it again.

[TucsonJim]

TucsonJim I'm not a professional either....even if OK per code, for piece of mind I would clean it up. You will never have to worry or think about it again.

I fixed it today while I was wiring my panel to accommodate the new inverter. My real reason for asking is to make sure I have my facts straight when I approach GDRV.

Jim

[Kathy&Jim_Imagine]

Jim, I'm not a professional either but have successfully wired a few homes over the years (passed inspection 1st time). I have a copy of the NEC as well. I've always put 1 wire into 1 lug on the panel. Not sure what GD was thinking on your panel. Agree with Scott'n'Wendy about possible difference in RIVA code and with Keith about it looking sloppy. When I was installing my Victron gear this past summer, I completely redid my BP as I was removing the charger from it anyway. Torqued everything to spec as well.

[TucsonJim]

I've conferred with GDRV and they will follow up with the factory and quality folks to see that this is addressed. It's highly unlikely that it would ever cause a problem. But most of us would not work on an energized circuit anyway.

I have rewired mine and the issue is closed.

Thanks,

Jim

[Jlawles2]

We all know that's the new guy trying to be efficient. Less screws to tighten means he gets through faster and can go on break for longer.

I can honestly say I was afraid to take pictures this weekend of my SIL's new house. 3/4" hole in top plate of wall had 5 (yes we counted multiple times) 14-2 w Ground (3 conductor wire) in it. The insulation physically ballooned as it exited the hole. There are several like this that need to be addressed. Turned around an looked at the main in the house. ALL (yes ALL) of the conductors for the 110V stuff came through the big top access hole. AGAIN you could see the change in the diameter of the wires as they exited the hole. NO CLUE as to how they planned to get the power from the pole into the panel.