Inverter Solar Battery upgrades to 22MLE

[jackbefus]

Greetings -

Later this year I will be implementing this project to our 2021 Imagine 22MLE. I've been learning from explorist.life, and essentially, I like their system using Victron equipment. Looking for any advice and some opinions regarding gear tradeoffs and answers to the following:

- my camper is pretty simple. Typical loads, except 110v fridge. (with propane option, but would like to run on electrics as much as possible)
- planning 800 watt solar, 3KVA inverter, and would like to go with one Battleborn 270 ah battery.
- want to run single air conditioner only when good sun is available (plan on using a soft start mod)
- plan to install DC to DC charger
- calculating average of 300 amp hours consumption a day

Questions:

- is the Cerbo GX monitor display worth the extra cost? (Planning on the Victron BMV-712 monitor)
- is the 270 ah BB enough?
- is BB Battery worth the money? I see options like Renogy and others. What are the tradeoffs?
- new trends in solar panels worth considering?

Thanks for any input.

Jack

[Jlawles2]

I do not have solar, but after reading a lot of the installs, I think your one battery option is not going to work. Most LiFePO4 batteries are limited to 100 amps discharge rate. A 3KVA inverter will need approx 300 amps of input to make full power.

You might check out LiTime (Research Will Prowse and his reviews) as you can probably double or triple your battery capacity for the same money.

[acoleman43]

Greetings -

Later this year I will be implementing this project to our 2021 Imagine 22MLE. I've been learning from explorist.life, and essentially, I like their system using Victron equipment. Looking for any advice and some opinions regarding gear tradeoffs and answers to the following:

- my camper is pretty simple. Typical loads, except 110v fridge. (with propane option, but would like to run on electrics as much as possible)
- planning 800 watt solar, 3KVA inverter, and would like to go with one Battleborn 270 ah battery.
- want to run single air conditioner only when good sun is available (plan on using a soft start mod)
- plan to install DC to DC charger
- calculating average of 300 amp hours consumption a day

Questions:

- is the Cerbo GX monitor display worth the extra cost? (Planning on the Victron BMV-712 monitor)
- is the 270 ah BB enough?
- is BB Battery worth the money? I see options like Renogy and others. What are the tradeoffs?
- new trends in solar panels worth considering?

Thanks for any input.

Jack

Hi Jack.

For energy, I would speak in terms of watts, not AH. If we speak in terms of watts, the 270AH BB battery is actually 12.8v. The total wattage of that battery is 3,456W.

As far as consumption, 300AH per day is about 3600W. This is about what we consume on an average day, so you're probably pretty close with this number.

Your air conditioner will use about 1500W per hour. This means that is you are using nothing else, the BB battery will last just over 2 hours with the AC running.

For solar panel yield, you generally use 5 hours a day of sun. 800W of yield is about 4000W of solar yield. This would compensate for the energy consumption each day. However, that is in a perfect world. Generally, on a good, sunny day, you will get 70%-80% of that. And, if you have a couple overcast days, you will not have enough stored energy in your battery for the 3600W daily consumption.

To answer your questions:

I like the Cerbo GX/GX Touch combination. I would recommend it, but it certainly is not necessary. Eventually mine will replace all monitoring for the trailer (holding tanks, fluids/LP, energy data, etc).

In my opinion the 270AH BB is not enough for extended boondocking. Generally you want your battery bank 2 or 3 times greater than you daily consumption needs. For your needs you would need 2 or 3 of those batteries.

Battle Born certainly are good, high quality batteries that stand behind their product. However, there are many more quality options for much less. I did not go with Battle Born and do not regret it. My "homemade" batteries have worked flawlessly for a few years now, and I literally saved over $5,000. I would make sure any battery you get uses good, quality cells and has a good BMS with the protections needed.

As far as new trends in panels, I'm not sure what you mean. I know I spent around $10K for my setup with 1200W solar, 800AH battery bank with the Multiplus, Cerbo, etc. It is A LOT of money to drop. I don't regret it. We are able to boondock indefinitely (with MINIMAL air conditioner usage) IF we have good sunny days. I was able to be completely off grid for 9 days in Big Bend. 2 weeks off grid in Utah/Idaho/Arizona/Nevada. But on a trip along the east coast we had no sun for weeks. Out panels could not keep up with out consumption demands. We had to use our generator every day to charge the batteries. So....even with a good solar setup, you will want a generator as backup.

Hope this helps.

[jackbefus]

Thanks to both of you, Joseph and Allen - all good and useful info. Regarding my question about trends, I actually am asking about new market entrants in the areas where Victron does not have gear - Lithium batteries and solar panels. We talked about Battleborn, and I appreciate the input. I know some folks use Rich Solar for panels - it appears to me that it does not make that much difference where you get your panels, or possibly I'm missing something.

Thanks again for your advice.

Jack

[acoleman43]

Thanks to both of you, Joseph and Allen - all good and useful info. Regarding my question about trends, I actually am asking about new market entrants in the areas where Victron does not have gear - Lithium batteries and solar panels. We talked about Battleborn, and I appreciate the input. I know some folks use Rich Solar for panels - it appears to me that it does not make that much difference where you get your panels, or possibly I'm missing something.

Thanks again for your advice.

Jack

I'm not an expert, but I act like an expert lol. I used NewPowa solar panels, Rich solar was my second choice, followed by Renogy. In my opinion there are a lot of good panels out there. I went with NewPowa based on the output (they had 210W 24V panels at the time) and size that would fit my rig the best. A couple years ago Renogy had some very efficient, expensive panels I was looking at, but couldn't justify the price. I think Rich solar is a very good, solid, proven choice.

[TucsonJim]

Over the years, I've gone to larger and larger solar/electrical systems based on my daily demands. I started off with a 100 watt portable panel and two flooded lead acid batteries.. Then I went to 400 watts on the roof and 200 amp hours of Battle Born batteries. After that, Increased my solar to 800 amp hours, and added another BB battery for 300 amp hours.

On our 2024 Solitude, I went big. In installed 2000 watts of solar (Rich solar panels), and four 230ah LiTime batteries for a total of 920ah. With this set up, I can run an AC for about 7-8 hours without using solar. If I'm in good sunlight, I can run much longer.

Without running the AC, I use about about 300 ah on a daily basis. The solar typically has me recharged by 1:00pm on a winter day. While attending the GDRV rally in Quartzsite Arizona, I had enough excess power that I could recharge the technician's trailers overnight!

As a minimum, I try to size my battery bank for two days of use without recharging. I think you'll find that one 270 ah battery might not be enough for you.

The total investment in my system was about $9.8K





Jim

[Paul & Deb]

Greetings -

Later this year I will be implementing this project to our 2021 Imagine 22MLE. I've been learning from explorist.life, and essentially, I like their system using Victron equipment. Looking for any advice and some opinions regarding gear tradeoffs and answers to the following:

- my camper is pretty simple. Typical loads, except 110v fridge. (with propane option, but would like to run on electrics as much as possible)
- planning 800 watt solar, 3KVA inverter, and would like to go with one Battleborn 270 ah battery.
- want to run single air conditioner only when good sun is available (plan on using a soft start mod)
- plan to install DC to DC charger
- calculating average of 300 amp hours consumption a day

Questions:

- is the Cerbo GX monitor display worth the extra cost? (Planning on the Victron BMV-712 monitor)
- is the 270 ah BB enough?
- is BB Battery worth the money? I see options like Renogy and others. What are the tradeoffs?
- new trends in solar panels worth considering?

Thanks for any input.

Jack

Hi Jack,

I also followed Nate when I did my project on my 22MLE. We've been traveling for over 2 years now in ours and have found our setup to work perfectly for our use. We are fairly heavy aH consumers and have needed our portable generator once for a short stay in Maine last year during a hurricane.

I'll admit that I'm not a Battle Born fanboy. I think they set the standards but continue to be way overpriced. I went with 2, 206 Ah SOK batteries and have zero regrets. AND, there are many, many more affordable lithium batteries on the market now that when I bought. I almost spent $3.700 on 400 aH of BB but ended up spending around $1,300 for 412 aH and significantly less footprint.

I also went with 4, 200 watt RICH panels.

BTW, I did not go with the Cerbo stuff for expense reasons and have never missed it. I also didn't add a DC to DC charger and have never felt a loss there either. NOT to say either of those additions would be nice but certainly not needed for us.

Anyway, here's the link to my post back when I did the install for some ideas. 2022 22MLE Solar and Power Systems Upgrades - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)

Good luck with your project!

Paul

[acoleman43]

Hi Jack,

I also followed Nate when I did my project on my 22MLE. We've been traveling for over 2 years now in ours and have found our setup to work perfectly for our use. We are fairly heavy aH consumers and have needed our portable generator once for a short stay in Maine last year during a hurricane.

I'll admit that I'm not a Battle Born fanboy. I think they set the standards but continue to be way overpriced. I went with 2, 206 Ah SOK batteries and have zero regrets. AND, there are many, many more affordable lithium batteries on the market now that when I bought. I almost spent $3.700 on 400 aH of BB but ended up spending around $1,300 for 412 aH and significantly less footprint.

I also went with 4, 200 watt RICH panels.

BTW, I did not go with the Cerbo stuff for expense reasons and have never missed it. I also didn't add a DC to DC charger and have never felt a loss there either. NOT to say either of those additions would be nice but certainly not needed for us.

Anyway, here's the link to my post back when I did the install for some ideas. 2022 22MLE Solar and Power Systems Upgrades - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)

Good luck with your project!

Paul

I don't have a DC-DC charger either. It wouldn't make a difference for us. The panels charge the batteries while we're driving just fine. No need for additional current from the truck.

I will say, once you have the GX Touch with the Cerbo, you don't want to go back

[jackbefus]

This is far better than Christmas as a kid, guys! I'm geeked to go through these responses in detail and update my own design plans. Paul, thanks so much to the link to your project. I will go through that and post any significant questions.

Thanks for the advice on batteries and things not all that necessary!

Jack

[jackbefus]

Quick related question: Has anyone figured out the Multiplus II vs the basic Multiplus? Cheaper, newer, what could go wrong??

Thanks!

[howson]

Quick related question: Has anyone figured out the Multiplus II vs the basic Multiplus? Cheaper, newer, what could go wrong??

Thanks!

Do you mean the difference? The Multiplus II will take both legs of incoming 120vAC and pass them thru where the original (which is what I have) will only accept (and invert) on one leg. There are also other compliance-related features that make the II better for those that backfeed power into the grid (not normal for an RV'er).

Bottom line: if an owner has a 30A rig and does not plan on upgrading their wiring to a 50A (split leg) setup, then the original Multiplus is a good option. For those with a 50A rig, the II is probably a better choice.

If I misunderstood your question, fire back.

Howard

[acoleman43]

Quick related question: Has anyone figured out the Multiplus II vs the basic Multiplus? Cheaper, newer, what could go wrong??

Thanks!

If you have a 50A rig, the Multiplus II 2x120 is a much better option for you. It is made for 50A, 2 leg setup. The original Multiplus powers just 1 leg regardless of input.

[ncitro]

They do make a single leg version of the type ii, but it’s generally not needed for RV use. It does have a different form factor which may fit better depending on your layout.

[jackbefus]

Do you mean the difference? The Multiplus II will take both legs of incoming 120vAC and pass them thru where the original (which is what I have) will only accept (and invert) on one leg. There are also other compliance-related features that make the II better for those that backfeed power into the grid (not normal for an RV'er).

Bottom line: if an owner has a 30A rig and does not plan on upgrading their wiring to a 50A (split leg) setup, then the original Multiplus is a good option. For those with a 50A rig, the II is probably a better choice.

If I misunderstood your question, fire back.

Howard

That solves the riddle. That was my question, exactly. Thanks very much, guys!

Looking forward to the season getting started here in southwest Michigan! A bit jealous of you southerners!

Jack

[theXGENbus]

Jack,
We have joined the GD family last yea (2023) in October with a 278BH.
Perviously, we had converted a skoolie.
On the skoolie project, I had 1800W solar on the roof, 2-400amph batteries.
The only time we ever ran the batteries down were on the beach in TX at night.
Once the su came up, we had full batteries within a few hours.

On the new rig, I am in the initial stages of adding roughly he same set up to the 5th wheel.
The plan will be 1800w, adding an additional 400 amphrs to the battery bank( we have 2 roof ac units and I would have more than not enough to keep everyone cool), the Multiplus II (capable of 50 amp service aka 2X120V).
The one question that I did not see answered is relating to the OEM 12v system.
My intention/ plan is to seperate the leveling jacks and associated controls from the new batteries, basically leave them untouched.
Have you addressed that concept?
Just curious.