Proper Ring terminal hole sizing and is insulated terminal required?

[Yoda]

This may sound like a strange posts, but I have run into a dilemma. How critical is matching the ring terminal hole size to the connection size. Example #10 size ring on #8 screw, or using a 3/8" ring on a 5/16" stud. Both are close, but not a perfect match. BTW will a 5/16" ring fit an M8 stud? I have yet to find an #M8 ring in 2/0 and 4/0, but I could be messing up my metric conversion and not reading tables correctly
Although I know I can use 10/3 cable with my future Go Power 3000w inverter (25 AMP output) I was wanting to use 8/3 cable. Maybe I am The best route gives me a 15' run (one direction) The inverter has #8 screws from what I can tell, and the transfer switch has #8 screws too.

I am using 8 AWG PV cables on the solar due to run length and future expansion. I found 8 AWG PV wire and 8 AWG MC4 fittings at Continuous Resources.

Dilemma is finding good insulated 8 AWG #8 ring terminals - I can find 8 AWG #8 non-insulated terminals. I also can find all the 8 AWG #10 insulated ring terminals I want.

I have been searching the following brands. Ancor, FTZ, Sta-Kon, AMP/Tyco, Panduit, Morris Products. All of these have been recommended by various sources including here. Amazon has some of the brands, but prices are steep. Pkys.com carry's Ancor and has the best pricing for small quantity but does not carry all the sizes in 8 AWG that I think I need. I have used PKYS before with good service.

First - is there any reason not to use non insulated terminals? I can heat shrink if needed. Many many years ago (high school) all you could get were non insulated and you soldered them and taped them before installation. UGG - what a flashback, glad I am old sorehead now.

Second - some sources say you can us a #10 hole size ring terminal on a #8 screw connection - is that true? Hole dimensions appear a bit big for the #8 screw and I don't want pull through.

Bottom line - am I nuts for wanting to use the 8/3 cable??????

Should I solve my problem by going 10/3 cable from the inverter (25 amp AC) to transfer switch and then to the distribution panel??? I'm guessing the 30 AMP service cable will be 10 AWG too. Then there is no issues on finding the terminals I need. Its AC so the 10/3 should be fine as I was told before.

Sometimes I think I over engineer my projects (wanting 8/3 cable for extra safety and measure) - Ya think?

Thanks Keith


Yep I know - go back to my corner

[TucsonJim]

Yoda I just purchase copper ring terminals and apply heat shrink after crimping. Here's an example below:

[Yoda]

Yoda I just purchase copper ring terminals and apply heat shrink after crimping. Here's an example below:

Man you do neat work. Can I bring everything down to you? So I understand - what your saying is I can use non insulated even for the smaller size wires (8 to 14 AWG) and shrink wrap?

Thanks

PS - what terminal source did you use?

[TucsonJim]

Bring your rig and a six pack. We'll knock it out. In fact, Paul Paul & Deb and I are going to build some new cables for his rig at the Quartzsite get-together at the end of the month.

You most certainly can use this method with any size terminal. When purchasing heat shrink, I'd recommend you go with the adhesive lined variety. On smaller terminals, I actually purchased ring connectors that had built in heat shrink. You can see these in the photo below:



Here are some of the parts I purchased.

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1W...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B073Y8...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07BZD...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Yoda]

Bring your rig and a six pack. We'll knock it out. In fact, Paul Paul & Deb and I are going to build some new cables for his rig at the Quartzsite get-together at the end of the month.

You most certainly can use this method with any size terminal. When purchasing heat shrink, I'd recommend you go with the adhesive lined variety. On smaller terminals, I actually purchased ring connectors that had built in heat shrink. You can see these in the photo below:



Here are some of the parts I purchased.

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1W...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B073Y8...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07BZD...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks Jim
I love your neat and tidy work. Hopefully I can come close.
Pricing on the battery lugs looks pretty good, especially UL listed. Not sure if the TEMCo ones I have on my (yet to get) shopping list are.

Yep I have looked into and tried to use the heat shrink (marine grade) terminals. It was probably me, but I had issues with breaking the heat shrink when crimping. I used various heat shrink rated dies and others I have. Good crimps, but I managed to break the sheeting on about 50% of the connections. I did get them from NAPA and don't remember the brand. I remember they were pricey compared to the vinyl and nylon insulated terminals. I got a few packs of various sizes to try. All the others I used were nylon insulated and I had no issues

Whats the Quartzsite get-together at the end of the month? Is it an annual thing that GD sponsors, or just a get together?

Any thought on ring size verses terminal size in your experience?

Thanks for your help.
Keith Off to my corner to make Anaheim poppers.

[KamFlyer]

For any of you in Q now, there are several surplus type places that stock a decent assortment of ring connectors of various sizes. One of my favorites is the Quartzsite Outpost at the West end of Main St. There are usually also one or two in the Tyson Wells market off Kuehn St. just West of 95.

[ncitro]

Thanks Jim
I love your neat and tidy work. Hopefully I can come close.
Pricing on the battery lugs looks pretty good, especially UL listed. Not sure if the TEMCo ones I have on my (yet to get) shopping list are.

Yep I have looked into and tried to use the heat shrink (marine grade) terminals. It was probably me, but I had issues with breaking the heat shrink when crimping. I used various heat shrink rated dies and others I have. Good crimps, but I managed to break the sheeting on about 50% of the connections. I did get them from NAPA and don't remember the brand. I remember they were pricey compared to the vinyl and nylon insulated terminals. I got a few packs of various sizes to try. All the others I used were nylon insulated and I had no issues

Whats the Quartzsite get-together at the end of the month? Is it an annual thing that GD sponsors, or just a get together?

Any thought on ring size verses terminal size in your experience?

Thanks for your help.
Keith Off to my corner to make Anaheim poppers.

To answer your question on sizing, I wouldn’t worry about the metric conversion, I would just go with the closest SAE equivalent, but I do try to match the size 1/4, 5/16, or 3/8. Should equate to more contact between the ring and the post, better current flow, and less heat. I got a set on Amazon that is bare copper in a variety of sizes (8 to 2 maybe) that included color coded heat shrink. I keep that and my crimper in the rig, you’d be surprised how often someone needs a cable made. This won’t help you on your 4/0 (I had those made) but the philosophy should hold.

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda


I have always purchased terminals, lugs and heat shrink from https://www.elecdirect.com. They have every version and size that you can think of. They also have WeatherPack connectors that I like to use wherever I need a completely weatherproof connection that can be undone. Prices and delivery time has always been reasonable.

Your problem with breaking the insulation when crimping a heat shrink terminal is that you are probably using a crimper designed for regular terminals that crimps on both the bare wire and the insulation. The correct jaws for heat shrink terminals crimp only the wire. The glue filled heat shrink is the second means of connection to the insulation on the wire and does not need to be crimped.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

Whats the Quartzsite get-together at the end of the month? Is it an annual thing that GD sponsors, or just a get together?

Keith - In normal years, it's a full blown GDRV rally, boondocking style. This year, it's simply a campout in the desert due to distancing requirements. No large groups, no seminars, no potlucks, etc. It runs from 2/25 - 2/28 this year.

Jim

[Yoda]

Yoda


I have always purchased terminals, lugs and heat shrink from https://www.elecdirect.com. They have every version and size that you can think of. They also have WeatherPack connectors that I like to use wherever I need a completely weatherproof connection that can be undone. Prices and delivery time has always been reasonable.

Your problem with breaking the insulation when crimping a heat shrink terminal is that you are probably using a crimper designed for regular terminals that crimps on both the bare wire and the insulation. The correct jaws for heat shrink terminals crimp only the wire. The glue filled heat shrink is the second means of connection to the insulation on the wire and does not need to be crimped.

Rob

Thanks Rob, but now I am puzzled. The dies are specifically for heat shrink terminals (single crimp rounded edges). Are you saying I need to pull the insulation back and just crimp the wire. then let the insulation slide over the crimp? I was crimping through the insulation and the insulation split right at the crimp impact point.

[TucsonJim]

Thanks Rob, but now I am puzzled. The dies are specifically for heat shrink terminals (single crimp rounded edges). Are you saying I need to pull the insulation back and just crimp the wire. then let the insulation slide over the crimp? I was crimping through the insulation and the insulation split right at the crimp impact point.

Keith,

I've always crimped the terminals through the shrinkable insulation when they are manufactured that way. My crimpers have a setting for "insulated terminals", and another for non-insulated terminals. In my last photo, I crimped the terminals through the sleeving, then shrank it with no issues at all. I wonder if some of your terminals were just defective when they broke? Of course, if I'm crimping a bare terminal and using shrink tubing, I slide the tubing in place after crimping.

Jim

[Yoda]

Keith,

I've always crimped the terminals through the shrinkable insulation when they are manufactured that way. My crimpers have a setting for "insulated terminals", and another for non-insulated terminals. In my last photo, I crimped the terminals through the sleeving, then shrank it with no issues at all. I wonder if some of your terminals were just defective when they broke? Of course, if I'm crimping a bare terminal and using shrink tubing, I slide the tubing in place after crimping.

Jim

Jim - your probably are right - cheap terminals and my new crimper with me overdoing it

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda TucsonJim

Crimpers for "insulated" terminals usually mean the terminals with the rigid plastic insulation, not heat shrink insulation. I have had the jaws for insulated terminals tear the relatively soft heat shrink material as Keith describes. In either case, the intent is to crimp the terminal with the insulation in place.

Rob