Pedestal issue or remove the surge protector

[dgerfan]

ncitro The pedestal has 50A, 30A and 20A outlets and when the low voltage occurs multiple times in a day on the one outlet I'm connected to I switch over to the other outlet (not 20A). But now If I understand what you're saying the low voltage condition is caused by the load and not necessarily a problem with either outlet. If thats the case moving outlets doesn't accomplish anything. If I remember correctly I was staying on 30A because when the low voltage condition is cleared and the SG allows power to flow both L1&L2 receive power whereas on 50A some of our outlets don't work. I really need to map out what appliances, outlet, etc are on what breaker.

I like your recommendation to set the power assist to activate at a limit lower than what Amp the connected pedestal outlet is providing. Unfortunately I can'y supplement with solar because all the trees in the site render it pretty non-existent.

The other two options you presented would be viable if we were here longer than a month. At this point we have decided to ride it out without complaining as it appears the Owner isn't interested or doesn't have time to get to the bottom of the issue. But I"m still not going to remove the SG.

[Schiefswret]

[QUOTE=dgerfan;n90926]

dgerfan You don't say but I'm assuming you're on a 30A site?

The pedestal has both 30A and 50A outlets and the low voltage occurs multiple times in a day on 30A I would then move over to 50A outlet and vice versa.

I’m not sure what the question is. Can you clarify?

[Scott'n'Wendy]

To determine if it is your ems (it is possible) or the pedestal power (more likely) you need to put a meter on the pedestal to confirm or refute what you ems is saying.
Are you plugged in to 30 or 50 amp?

Like others have said, it is likely cg load dependent.

On re reading your post, you are plugged into 30amp, so you are only connected to one leg of the pedestal power, you could ask the cg electrician to connect your 30a receptacle to the other leg instead.

[dgerfan]

To determine if it is your ems (it is possible) or the pedestal power (more likely) you need to put a meter on the pedestal to confirm or refute what you ems is saying.
Are you plugged in to 30 or 50 amp?

Like others have said, it is likely cg load dependent.

On re reading your post, you are plugged into 30amp, so you are only connected to one leg of the pedestal power, you could ask the cg electrician to connect your 30a receptacle to the other leg instead.

We start the day connected to 50A. I attempt to simulate a load by turning on all the high draw appliances except the fireplace. First I check the EMS L1&L2 voltages before the simulation and while the simulation is going on. Per the SP there was no drop in voltage on either leg.

A couple hours after the test the power flickered two times within the span of a couple minutes. I run out to check the SP however it didn't show any voltage drop (the reading is 118V). Then we check each outlet and appliance to make sure they were running properly. Noticed that the receptacle power in the bunk room and bedroom and the Water Heater are off. I reset the breakers inside the RV but they are still off. I then turnoff pedestal power and the transfer switch (SPS) switches to Inverter provided power. While on Inverter these outlets and water heater work. I then go outside and turn the 50A breaker back on. Once transfer switch switches to pedestal power these outlets turn off. I go outside and turn off 50A breaker and then connect the SP with a dog bone adapter to 30A now the outlets and water heater work.

A hour later while still connected to 30A the power flickers one time, SP still doesn't show low voltage and the outlets in the bunk room and bedroom and water heater work.

Any idea why those outlets don't work on 50A after the power flickers but they work on 30A even after a flicker?

[ncitro]

We start the day connected to 50A. I attempt to simulate a load by turning on all the high draw appliances except the fireplace. First I check the EMS L1&L2 voltages before the simulation and while the simulation is going on. Per the SP there was no drop in voltage on either leg.

A couple hours after the test the power flickered two times within the span of a couple minutes. I run out to check the SP however it didn't show any voltage drop (the reading is 118V). Then we check each outlet and appliance to make sure they were running properly. Noticed that the receptacle power in the bunk room and bedroom and the Water Heater are off. I reset the breakers inside the RV but they are still off. I then turnoff pedestal power and the transfer switch (SPS) switches to Inverter provided power. While on Inverter these outlets and water heater work. I then go outside and turn the 50A breaker back on. Once transfer switch switches to pedestal power these outlets turn off. I go outside and turn off 50A breaker and then connect the SP with a dog bone adapter to 30A now the outlets and water heater work.

A hour later while still connected to 30A the power flickers one time, SP still doesn't show low voltage and the outlets in the bunk room and bedroom and water heater work.

Any idea why those outlets don't work on 50A after the power flickers but they work on 30A even after a flicker?

Definitely sounds like a campground problem. Do you have a multimeter? If so I'd be curious what the voltage is at the 50A recepticle when this is going on. If you've got no voltage there then it's obviously not a problem on your side.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

You would not be able to cause the load yourself. It's a function of numerous campsites creating the amperage demand that causes voltage drop.
Sounds like one leg is experiencing what could be caused by load and or connection issues. When connected with the dog bone, you appear to be connected to the leg without issue. The 30a dog bone connects the one leg coming from the pedestal to both sides of the panel within your trailer powering up the other receptacles and wh.
With what I understand at the moment, your 50a supply definitely has an issue on one leg. Probably only showing up when enough trailers create enough current demand. If nobody else with 50a service is having an issue, there is an issue with your specific pedestal and/ or the wire feeding it. Possibly the breaker itself.

[Country Campers]

I wonder if you have a loose wire connection either at the input socket on the camper or at the power distribution panel where the wires connect to the 50 amp breaker.

Brian

[RoyB]

We start the day connected to 50A. I attempt to simulate a load by turning on all the high draw appliances except the fireplace. First I check the EMS L1&L2 voltages before the simulation and while the simulation is going on. Per the SP there was no drop in voltage on either leg.

A couple hours after the test the power flickered two times within the span of a couple minutes. I run out to check the SP however it didn't show any voltage drop (the reading is 118V). Then we check each outlet and appliance to make sure they were running properly. Noticed that the receptacle power in the bunk room and bedroom and the Water Heater are off. I reset the breakers inside the RV but they are still off. I then turnoff pedestal power and the transfer switch (SPS) switches to Inverter provided power. While on Inverter these outlets and water heater work. I then go outside and turn the 50A breaker back on. Once transfer switch switches to pedestal power these outlets turn off. I go outside and turn off 50A breaker and then connect the SP with a dog bone adapter to 30A now the outlets and water heater work.

A hour later while still connected to 30A the power flickers one time, SP still doesn't show low voltage and the outlets in the bunk room and bedroom and water heater work.

Any idea why those outlets don't work on 50A after the power flickers but they work on 30A even after a flicker?

Am I understanding correctly that your surge protector says everything is OK but your outlets have no power? If the park is under voltage, the Surge Protector should open and tell you there's a voltage issue. Are you confirming the outlets have 0 power, or is it low voltage power? If it's staying closed with low voltage, then I would venture to say your surge protector isn't working correctly, or the problem is with your converter. If the voltage is OK, and the Surge protector is closed and you have no power than I would say the issue is downstream, in the converter.

Do you have a multimeter to check voltage manually at the outlet or at the pedestal?

Does the voltage issue happen when the park is quiet or busy or after a rainfall?

Has the CG changed the 50 amp breaker? Can you plug in to another 50 amp pedestal nearby?

We have come across failed breakers that allow voltage through, but once there's a load it will limit the voltage on one leg. Once the breaker cools down it goes back to normal until it heats up again (with a load).

If plugging into the 30 amp works, then it's removing 2 components. The 50 amp breaker and the phase that the 30amp is not on. I would venture to guess it's the 50 amp breaker failing. Can you give a better explanation of what the surge protector is doing when there's no power? Does it state low voltage or normal voltage? I would think if 1 leg is low, and 1 is normal that it will allow power through the good leg and notify of voltage issue on the 2nd one and not allow power through that one.

[dgerfan]

dgerfan and ncitro --- timely thread. I experienced the exact same symptoms yesterday afternoon. The hard-wired EMS displayed error code PE6 (Line 2 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts).

L2 powers the living room air conditioner and water heater (the latter was off). L1 powers the rest of the camper including the bedroom air conditioner (which was also running). L1's voltage level was fine--stayed north of 110v. It was only L2 that dropped below the 104v threshold even though the power draw was nearly equal on each leg.

The Victron Multiplus is set to 50A (available shore power) so it was not assisting in any way that I know of--it should have been in passthru mode.

Only other item of note is yesterday was the warmest since we've been in this park (near Eau Claire, WI) and the park has the most campers since we've arrived (typical Friday inflow of weekend campers).

I know the Multiplus does not manipulate voltage (like the Hughes Autoformer), all it does is react (via it's Transfer Switch) to low voltage depending on the settings under the GRID tab.

Since I wasn't sure what mine was set at I checked--right now it's 104. That's too low, since it is exactly the same as the EMS. Changing the low voltage setting to 106V should force the Multiplus into Inverter mode before shore power cuts off. As Neil suggested, the other "trick" is to set the shore power maximum input current to some setting less than maximum so the Multiplus goes into PowerAssist mode before shore power cuts off.

Below is a snip from the Grid settings showing the present configuration of my Multiplus--going to change the Low Voltage cutoff to 106V.



Howard

Howard a couple questions regarding your post. Does one need either the MK3-USB or the GX to make changes to the Multiplus settings? All I have is the VE.Bus dongle and Victron Connect which has very basic settings in it.. I was holding out for a Raspberry Pi with Venus OS however I'm not sure if you can make changes to the Multiplus with it and its hard to find a Pi that's available and cheap.

With regards to changing the low voltage Multiplus setting to higher than the EMS/SG setting. The only problem I see with this is what we experienced yesterday. Left the RV for a hour go go on a walk. When we got back I could hear the BMV Alarm. Pulled it up on Victron Connect and it showed the battery external temp at 135 degrees. What must of happened is that power cut off when we were gone causing the Multiplus to kick in. The A/C, Refrigerator, and a couple fans were running and that load caused the Multiplus to heat up the front storage compartment causing BMV to alarm. Shortly after the Inverter completely shutoff cutting off all power.

[ncitro]

dgerfan Yeah the mk3usb cable is the only way to change settings on it. I run the RPI with Venus for my interface, and still need the laptop to change settings. Good news is the RPI also uses the mk3usb cable, so you'll need one for that eventually anyway.

[dgerfan]

Definitely sounds like a campground problem. Do you have a multimeter? If so I'd be curious what the voltage is at the 50A recepticle when this is going on. If you've got no voltage there then it's obviously not a problem on your side.

Yes I actually have two. I'll be sure to check the outlet when/if the power flickers again. For the time being I have the Multiplus Power Assist set at 20A where all the normal loads (refrigerator, A/C and box Fans) are powered by Shore power and other high draw loads that are introduced will draw from the inverter.

[dgerfan]

You would not be able to cause the load yourself. It's a function of numerous campsites creating the amperage demand that causes voltage drop.
Sounds like one leg is experiencing what could be caused by load and or connection issues. When connected with the dog bone, you appear to be connected to the leg without issue. The 30a dog bone connects the one leg coming from the pedestal to both sides of the panel within your trailer powering up the other receptacles and wh.
With what I understand at the moment, your 50a supply definitely has an issue on one leg. Probably only showing up when enough trailers create enough current demand. If nobody else with 50a service is having an issue, there is an issue with your specific pedestal and/ or the wire feeding it. Possibly the breaker itself.

Thanks for the info I will ask the Owner to see what leg is connected to the 30A outlet and possibly check the connection back to the main panel.

Right now is the slow season for the Campground and when we had the issue last night there was only one family in the Cabin on the other side of us and one 5th wheel 1,000 ft away from us. Also the CG store was closed so its puzzling what load could affect this pedestal.

[dgerfan]

I wonder if you have a loose wire connection either at the input socket on the camper or at the power distribution panel where the wires connect to the 50 amp breaker.

Brian

I will have to look into how easy it is to tighten the RV female shore connection. The owner did tighten the 50A wires coming into our Pedestal and at the Main Panel but I can ask him to do it again.

[howson]

dgerfan -- the BMV alarm was due to high battery temp, not the Multiplus. (There is a difference, though the high temp was caused by the high draw from the Multiplus.)

How many batteries are connected to the Multiplus?

[dgerfan]

howson Correct it was the batteries not the Multiplus. I have (4) 100 Ah Battleborns.