Converter Replacement Basics

[Country Campers]

BR549

I have that same converter, changed out the factory one a while back for a better converter and also got the pendant, all before the thoughts of lithium. You will need to manually work the pendant to charge the lithium at the correct settings. When the lithium reaches full charge you will have to manually stop the converter/charger with the pendant. So it can be done, according to manual, but you will have to physically monitor it. A converter/charger made for lithium that you can set to the proper charge settings will take care of all of this for you, I always like the easy button.

Brian

[BR549]

Let me start by apologizing for the length of this post. Saying that my electrical experience is limited would be an understatement. The most I’ve done in RV wiring was to replace the converter in an Airstream. That was our first trailer and I could see that it was just pull wires from the old and plug into the new. Nonetheless, I was still surprised that it worked.

Stock equipment for the GD Reflection 280RS trailer includes:

1. PD9260C converter
2. Furrion solar controller
3. 1-190 watt Furrion solar panel
4. 88 amp hr lead acid battery
5. Furrion branded battery monitor (https://www.granddesignrv.com/owner-...s/detail/78859).

We’ve made it work for the first four months of ownership using the stock battery, but we know that we have to find something that will give us more flexibility.

The goal is to move incrementally to being able to boondock 3-7 days at a time. Keep the 12v refrigerator cold and have heat when needed. Camping when and where air conditioning is needed will have to be at state parks or using a generator.

I’m still undecided about generator or solar charging. I’ve not seen that the stock solar panel does much - if anything at all. The propane detector and refrigerator were enough to completely drain the battery the last time it was at the dealership even though it was parked in the open.

So here are the steps that I’ve gathered from the forums that would seem to work financially while improving our flexibility for off grid camping. Comments will be appreciated as will any suggestions to simplify.

Phase 1

1. Add pendant to existing PD converter to charge lithium manually.
2. Install 3/4” plywood floor in battery compartment as base to strap down batteries
3. Add 400 amp-hrs of lithium batteries as either 4-100 or 2-200 amp-hr batteries.

The batteries are a big expense and this gets us longer lasting power for two or three nights off grid.

Phase 2

1. replace 6 awg battery and converter wiring with 2 awg wire and move converter to front compartment.
2. Add battery disconnect switch in front compartment.
3. Replace Furrion battery monitor with Victron Bluetooth enabled monitor. I’m assuming the shunt in place will work and I’ll only have to replace the monitor.

The challenge here is pulling wires through the dark recesses of the trailer. Something I find a little intimidating until I’ve done it once.

Phase 3

1. Replace converter with PD9160AL (or equivalent).

At this point, reassess how we are traveling and whether adding more solar even makes sense. If it does, then the next step.

Phase 4

1. Add/replace solar panel(s)
2. Replace Furrion solar controller with Victron model.

Or trade-in and start over.

[Country Campers]

I think that will be a good starting plan but I would suggest getting the lithium converter/charger when you get the batteries so you do not have to worry about manually charging them. Here is the one that I had before going to the Multiplus 2 Amazon.com: Powermax PM4 60A 110V AC to 12V DC 60 Amp Power Converter with Built-in 4 Stage Smart Battery Charger : Automotive. With 4 batteries you will want more charging power when running the generator to charge the batteries so a 100 amp charger will help with that. The Furrion shunt is not compatible with the Victron equipment when you say you will just replace the monitor. The victron smart shunt Amazon.com: Victron Energy SmartShunt 500 amp Battery Monitor (Bluetooth) : Electronics will be all that you need, the display is not really needed.

If you camp in areas with lots of sun then solar panels will help, if not a generator will be your friend. More battery storage is about the best investment, followed by a good generator and charger to reach those 7 days of camping that you have in mind.

Brian

[Country Campers]

I also want to let you know to look closely at the end product where you want to be and plan ahead so the items you purchase will be used later on. Plenty here, me included, have started with systems and ended up in a totally different outcome and having extra unneeded parts leftover.

Brian

[howson]

BR549 -- Brian's advice is spot-on.

At the risk of repeating what he's already written...given the cost of the batteries, it doesn't make sense not to get a converter/charger that can take care of the batteries using the charge algorithm the batteries want (and need) to charge them. Just the time saving charging the lithium with a capable charger will make the time, effort, and expense worth it. LifePO4 batteries can take a charge much, much faster than a wet cell. Why run the generator for 8 hours to charge the batteries when it can be done in 2 with the right converter/charger? (I just made up the numbers...but they aren't far off!)

Also, the Furrion shunt is NOT compatible with the Victron equipment. I'd also go with a SmartShunt if starting over...I literally never use the display on the BMV-712 in my 315RLTS. (The VictronConnect app is simply superb.)

If anything written by me (or Brian) still leaves a question in your mind, please fire away with what needs to be clarified. Understanding before you start buying is key to minimize having to do the mods twice.

Howard

[epearce]

I’m planning to replace the WF9855 converter as part of adding lithium batteries. From reading prior posts and watching YT videos, the three most common replacement options seem to be:

PD9145ALV (45 amp)
PD4655V
WF-9855-AD-CB

Are there converters not listed that others have used to make this upgrade?

Any guidance from those who have done this replacement, such as has one model shown to be short lived, have a quieter fan, easier to swap out with the factory installed unit, etc.?

In talking to a couple of retailers that sell Progressive, one advised to go down to 45 amps while another said that going to a unit 5 amps above what the manufacturer installed is acceptable. Am I correct in my assumption that the change from a 55 amp charger to a 45 amp unit really won’t make a significant difference in charging time?

I went with the WF-9855-AD-CB, it works well and let me keep the power center wiring. The battery bank to power center and self-resetting breaker needed upgrading for the higher current

[Yoda]

I’m planning to replace the WF9855 converter as part of adding lithium batteries. From reading prior posts and watching YT videos, the three most common replacement options seem to be:

PD9145ALV (45 amp)
PD4655V
WF-9855-AD-CB

Are there converters not listed that others have used to make this upgrade?

Any guidance from those who have done this replacement, such as has one model shown to be short lived, have a quieter fan, easier to swap out with the factory installed unit, etc.?

In talking to a couple of retailers that sell Progressive, one advised to go down to 45 amps while another said that going to a unit 5 amps above what the manufacturer installed is acceptable. Am I correct in my assumption that the change from a 55 amp charger to a 45 amp unit really won’t make a significant difference in charging time?

You have gotten some great advice and recommendations. However I am going to steer you in a Blue direction

Are you ever going to want to install and inverter? If so scrap your converter replacement and get a Victron Multiplus of the type for your trailer. If you have a 50A service that would be the Multiplus II It is a converter and inverter combined in one unit with the transfer switch already in place. About as plug and play as you can get. https://www.victronenergy.com/invert...lus-ii-2x-120v You would run shore power to it, and power out to your distribution panel where shore power connected before, and tie in you r batterys. The charging side can be custom tailored to your battery charging needs.

Just food for thought
Keith

On edit - the pendent for your unit appears to only charge Lithium batteries manually and not automatically for your 9260. https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/ch...emote-pendant/

[BR549]

BR549 -- Brian's advice is spot-on.

At the risk of repeating what he's already written...given the cost of the batteries, it doesn't make sense not to get a converter/charger that can take care of the batteries using the charge algorithm the batteries want (and need) to charge them. Just the time saving charging the lithium with a capable charger will make the time, effort, and expense worth it. LifePO4 batteries can take a charge much, much faster than a wet cell. Why run the generator for 8 hours to charge the batteries when it can be done in 2 with the right converter/charger? (I just made up the numbers...but they aren't far off!)

Also, the Furrion shunt is NOT compatible with the Victron equipment. I'd also go with a SmartShunt if starting over...I literally never use the display on the BMV-712 in my 315RLTS. (The VictronConnect app is simply superb.)

If anything written by me (or Brian) still leaves a question in your mind, please fire away with what needs to be clarified. Understanding before you start buying is key to minimize having to do the mods twice.

Howard

I really appreciate the excellent advice.

Given the cost of the batteries, by comparison, adding the converter now certainly won’t break the bank. The reason I thought about delaying was to see if an inverter/converter might be desirable in the future. I don’t see trying to run air conditioning with batteries right now, but this is only our second year of RV camping.

How difficult is it to make wiring changes? When pulling wires in a fifth wheel, is it best to pull the new with the old or try to run a fish tape from the converter to the forward battery compartment?

[BR549]

You have gotten some great advice and recommendations. However I am going to steer you in a Blue direction

Are you ever going to want to install and inverter? If so scrap your converter replacement and get a Victron Multiplus of the type for your trailer. If you have a 50A service that would be the Multiplus II It is a converter and inverter combined in one unit with the transfer switch already in place. About as plug and play as you can get. https://www.victronenergy.com/invert...lus-ii-2x-120v You would run shore power to it, and power out to your distribution panel where shore power connected before, and tie in you r batterys. The charging side can be custom tailored to your battery charging needs.

Just food for thought
Keith

On edit - the pendent for your unit appears to only charge Lithium batteries manually and not automatically for your 9260. https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/ch...emote-pendant/

That “blue” direction is actually where I started. Knowing my limitations when it comes to RVs and electrical systems, I got a proposal for a Multiplus 2, lithium batteries and solar. That $15k quote changed my thinking. Not sure I have the skills to do that on my own.

[howson]

That “blue” direction is actually where I started. Knowing my limitations when it comes to RVs and electrical systems, I got a proposal for a Multiplus 2, lithium batteries and solar. That $15k quote changed my thinking. Not sure I have the skills to do that on my own.

The primary cost is the labor involved if someone else is doing the work. Second highest single cost will be the batteries. Quality wires and connectors with applicable fuses and shutoffs...no difference. So it comes down to the difference in the price of the individual components.

Let me put it differently--to get the same capability installed in the RV (that matches the capability of the setup in the $15K quote with Victron) with less expensive components, what is that quote? I'm betting it won't be an extreme difference.

The Victron gear isn't cheap--no doubt about it. What it really comes down to is what you (or, like in my case, the DW) expects the from the system once installed. If it doesn't do what you want, even a modest amount of money is wasted. To get that capability it doesn't have to be Victron but (again) I doubt you'll find the difference for the same capability extremely different.

There are exceptions, as no doubt someone will point out I went with a Renogy DC-DC Charger since it was highly touted by a reputable source and did the exact same thing as the Victron equivalent but cost less. (I did all the install work myself.)

Bottom line: if you'll bounce your capability ("requirements" is the buzz word we used at work) wish list with a system list, there's plenty of us here that will be able to respond with real-world experience of what you can expect, along with limitations ("gotchas") or if you're buying too much capability. Don't worry about running through a lot of versions.

None of us have an ax to grind or anything to gain in this other than helping a fellow owner.

[Country Campers]

Moving or installing a new converter/charger in the front bay near the batteries does not require any "new" wiring ran back to the power panel inside the RV. You will need some new wire for the batteries as well as connecting from the new converter/charger to the batteries. The wiring from the breakers in the front compartment, under the plastic cover above the stock battery, to the power panel inside is sufficient. The stock converter/charger is plugged into the rear of the power panel inside, this can be unplugged and and extension cord used to go to the front compartment to plug in the new converter/charger. The stock converter/charger is left in place. I ran the extension cord overhead in the front pass thru storage area to the front compartment.

Brian

[ncitro]

BR549 No surprise here I agree with Brian and Howard(and have a system that's similar to both of them). The only thing I would add is I've seen you associate an inverter charger like the Multiplus with rubbing your AC off of batteries. You should realize whole foods is possible and can be done for a brief period of time (think truck stop lunches) it's generally not practical without either a ton of batteries and/or panels. The inverter is more about running your smaller 120v loads when dry camping than your large loads. I commonly use mine for my crock pot while driving (to have dinner ready when we get there) or the microwave or laptop chargers etc. Those things may or may not be important to you, only you can decide that, but I would not rule out a Multiplus because you're not looking to run your AC.

[Yoda]

BR549

I don't have the inverter to run my AC, but other smaller convince loads as folks have mentioned. Now as for Lithium Battery's. There are now numerous solid brands that are just as good, but much cheaper than Battle Born Will Prowse has excellent information and actually tests and tears apart batterys. This is a good place to start. Right now I like the SOK. He also has a lot of solar experience, but in my opinion your best bang for the buck wold be a DC-DC charger (60a) over solar as a first step.

Here is a link to Will's videos https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

Just trying to help
Keith

[acoleman43]

BR549 a lot of really good info here. I will add a caution on wire sizing. Make sure you are sizing it correctly. I would even recommend going larger than is required to reduce voltage drop and temperature of the wire itself. If you size the wire too small it becomes a fire hazard.

Take advantage of the smart people in this forum, it's like a large databank of knowledge.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I'll just put this out there. This is related to 'what do you want the finished product to do". You made 80ah work for 4 months. Not ideal but made it work. Now that 80ah battery only really gives you 40ah usable. A 200ah LiFePO4 will give you five times the battery power of that FLA dealer supplied battery. Do you really need ten times the battery power of the original - 400ah?
I boondock for 3 or 4 days on the dealer supplied 80ah battery regularly...but I have an absorption fridge, so I only have lights and a water pump to run. Majority of the fridge cooling is done by propane, and I have no interest in an inverter..although we did just pick up a 100ah LiFePO4.
I think you need to gather real life power usage numbers of the fridge. Find out how many ah it needs in the amount of time between generator runs. Personally we run the gen at breakfast time and suppertime.
If you think an inverter WILL be coming in the future...400ah for sure.