Replacing in-wall wiring due to short

[bigben]

We have a 2020 303RLS and our second awning has stopped working. It blows the 15 amp fuse every time we try to retract or extend that awning. I have disconnected the awning motor from the wiring harness and performed a continuity test on the wiring harness to confirm that there is a short somewhere between the switch and the motor. The black wire harness in the awning appears to be fine. Has anyone had to replace the "in-wall" wiring?

[Scott'n'Wendy]

The second awning is on a slide. There are Molex connectors that are under your slide. That may be the best first move. Check it. They have a bit of a reputation for failing.

I have not done it -replace wire -on a trailer exterior wall. I'm not sure if there is space around the wire or if the wire will be compressed by foam insulation. Wires usually have issues at joints, switches, where they go through walls (chaffing), where they have to move regularly. In the wall would not be as common. Although a stray staple etc could do it.
If molex checks out, before doing trying to pull new wire through the wall, examine where the wire goes into the wall. Maybe try to pull a little out and examine the wire insulation. Get a look at the wiring at the switch and follow it as best you can to where it goes into the wall. Look for chaffing anywhere along the route.
If you really have to replace the in-wall wiring....you use the old wire to 'pull' in the new wire.

EDIT...as it was pointed out to me by a knowledgeable person, the molex are only 120vac...I didn't know that so skip the molex suggestion.

[JBill9694]

Is it possible that the wiring is not in the exterior wall, but runs through the air space in the ceiling? If so, it may be accessible by dropping a nearby light.

[Cate&Rob]

When Grand Design needs to run wires through an exterior wall, they leave an open path through the placement of the rigid foam insulation during wall construction. There are no wires placed in the walls until wall fabrication is completed. Wires typically transition from main body to movable slide, under the slide. But, since the switch location is in the slide (correct me if I am wrong on this) the wiring probably goes up the slide wall from the switch and into the roof space on its way to the awning motor. This is going to be a difficult path to trace.

A "new" possibility might be to find 12V from the light over the recliners and come out through the wall to the awning track. This would require a new switch location (and fuse) on the overhead cabinet . . . or, maybe a wireless remote switch?

Rob

[bigben]

When Grand Design needs to run wires through an exterior wall, they leave an open path through the placement of the rigid foam insulation during wall construction. There are no wires placed in the walls until wall fabrication is completed. Wires typically transition from main body to movable slide, under the slide. But, since the switch location is in the slide (correct me if I am wrong on this) the wiring probably goes up the slide wall from the switch and into the roof space on its way to the awning motor. This is going to be a difficult path to trace.

A "new" possibility might be to find 12V from the light over the recliners and come out through the wall to the awning track. This would require a new switch location (and fuse) on the overhead cabinet . . . or, maybe a wireless remote switch?

Rob

My fear and plan "B" is to wire in a new switch, but I'm curious to see if anyone has pulled in new wire by pulling out the old wire. Since we are out of warranty and I'm a moderately handy person, I'm trying to figure out if this is a DIY fix or if I need to take it into the dealer.

[bigben]

Is it possible that the wiring is not in the exterior wall, but runs through the air space in the ceiling? If so, it may be accessible by dropping a nearby light.

Good point, I'll see if I can pull down the dining table light and see what's up there.

[bigben]

The second awning is on a slide. There are Molex connectors that are under your slide. That may be the best first move. Check it. They have a bit of a reputation for failing.

I have not done it -replace wire -on a trailer exterior wall. I'm not sure if there is space around the wire or if the wire will be compressed by foam insulation. Wires usually have issues at joints, switches, where they go through walls (chaffing), where they have to move regularly. In the wall would not be as common. Although a stray staple etc could do it.
If molex checks out, before doing trying to pull new wire through the wall, examine where the wire goes into the wall. Maybe try to pull a little out and examine the wire insulation. Get a look at the wiring at the switch and follow it as best you can to where it goes into the wall. Look for chaffing anywhere along the route.
If you really have to replace the in-wall wiring....you use the old wire to 'pull' in the new wire.

EDIT...as it was pointed out to me by a knowledgeable person, the molex are only 120vac...I didn't know that so skip the molex suggestion.

This happened right after we had four people seated at the table for dinner. We have the bench seat that goes along the outside wall with two free standing chairs on the other side of the table. I believe that this was a new feature in the 2020 model year. My theory is that the screws that hold the hangers for the bench seat back were close to the wiring and when we sat back on this bench we have pushed a screw head into the wiring. I've examined all connections and visible wire with no visible issues.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I have the exact same setup as you Ben. If you think the bench seat back bench screws caused the short, remove them and see if your situation improves...although I'm not sure your theory is a good one...it may be..but I'm skeptical. Screw removal won't definitely prove it out, but may make a difference.
The switch for the awning is in the control centre just in front of you when you enter through the door. Did you check the wiring on the backside of the switch? If you look in the cabinet behind the control centre, you will see two screws at the back of the cabinet that hold the piece of wood/trim that cover the wires for the control panel. Remove those and the front edge is held by a staple or two that will yield if you tug on it a bit.
See if anything is amiss in there. I just want to make sure you check everywhere accessible before you start pulling in new wiring, new switches etc.

[bigben]

I have the exact same setup as you Ben. If you think the bench seat back bench screws caused the short, remove them and see if your situation improves...although I'm not sure your theory is a good one...it may be..but I'm skeptical. Screw removal won't definitely prove it out, but may make a difference.
The switch for the awning is in the control centre just in front of you when you enter through the door. Did you check the wiring on the backside of the switch? If you look in the cabinet behind the control centre, you will see two screws at the back of the cabinet that hold the piece of wood/trim that cover the wires for the control panel. Remove those and the front edge is held by a staple or two that will yield if you tug on it a bit.
See if anything is amiss in there. I just want to make sure you check everywhere accessible before you start pulling in new wiring, new switches etc.

In our rig, the switch for that awning is in the slide, beside the front facing window. I have removed that switch and pulled out as much wire as possible, everything looks good no chafing or loose connections. I noticed that the power line to the ceiling lights in the slide are pigtailed off the main power line before feeding power to the awning switch. Makes me feel pretty sure that the short is between the awning switch and the awning motor as the using the ceilings do not cause the fuse to blow.

I agree, I'm grasping at straws on this. Its weird that after almost 4 seasons of use, this happened right after we sat four at the table, but it probably is a coincidence.

I was able to obtain a new switch from a dealer while we were on the road and the new switch did not help.

[Yoda]

In our rig, the switch for that awning is in the slide, beside the front facing window. I have removed that switch and pulled out as much wire as possible, everything looks good no chafing or loose connections. I noticed that the power line to the ceiling lights in the slide are pigtailed off the main power line before feeding power to the awning switch. Makes me feel pretty sure that the short is between the awning switch and the awning motor as the using the ceilings do not cause the fuse to blow.

I agree, I'm grasping at straws on this. Its weird that after almost 4 seasons of use, this happened right after we sat four at the table, but it probably is a coincidence.

I was able to obtain a new switch from a dealer while we were on the road and the new switch did not help.

Its this where your switch is located?
I pulled this off of the GD 303RLS information page, Can you tell if the wiring runs up from the switch or down from the switch to the awning, If down can you see the wires below the slide? you can use a sowing needed to check continuity (push it through the insulation) where you find those wires. Also can you get to the wire junction behind the awning motor (are there connections, or plug good) and have you check the wiring in the awning arm track to where it enters the wall. On my unit it runs all the way down the awning in a hidden track that is covered with a plastic cover. You may find that by opening up the locations (remove sealant) the you can get a fish tape up the wall.

If possible take a few photos of the wiring runs that you can find and see.

After looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Ip7t1ildw I would bet the awing wiring on the slide awning comes all the way to the bottom inside the awning frame (pull the channel cover and inspect this wiring as it does get folded up. Then through the slide wall at the very bottom of the awning frame, and then under the slide, possibly using the umbilical wiring group. The wire then may go up to the switch. GD usually keeps the color coding on the wires the same for the full run. I would look at the umbilical wiring to see if there is any damage there too as the power must come from the main coach.

Hope this gives a few clues where to look

Keith

[bigben]

Yes, that is the same bench setup we have and the switch is located on the wall above the back rest. In my case the wiring exits the side wall at the top of the awning arm/frame. Those connections and wires look good. I have disconnected the motor and performed a continuity test on the pos/neg wires on the wiring plug that connects to the motor and I have continuity there so the pos/neg wires are shorted together somewhere in the wall. I have inspected the black wiring in the awning arm and there are no pinch points where a short may have occurred. When I pulled the plug from the wall, it looks like the wiring goes up the wall to the ceiling. This would make sense since the wiring comes out of the wall at the top of the awing arm outside.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Hmmmm...ok. We have 2021 and the switch is in the control panel just inside the door. The slide only has the dimmer for the table light.
Well, pulling in new wires from the switch should not be too difficult then with your switch on the slide. I would expect you would be able to tie/tape a new wire, or a string to the old wiring and pull the wire where it exits the wall at the top of the awning arm outside. About a 8 foot piece of wire I'd guess.

[Yoda]

Yes, that is the same bench setup we have and the switch is located on the wall above the back rest. In my case the wiring exits the side wall at the top of the awning arm/frame. Those connections and wires look good. I have disconnected the motor and performed a continuity test on the pos/neg wires on the wiring plug that connects to the motor and I have continuity there so the pos/neg wires are shorted together somewhere in the wall. I have inspected the black wiring in the awning arm and there are no pinch points where a short may have occurred. When I pulled the plug from the wall, it looks like the wiring goes up the wall to the ceiling. This would make sense since the wiring comes out of the wall at the top of the awing arm outside.

Do any wires exit the bottom of the slide wall below the switch location or below the awning arm that has the power? They may be hidden by a trim piece. This will be under the slide.
Keith

[JBill9694]

I didn't realize the awning is on the slide. There may not be an air space in the slide ceiling, it is most likely sandwiched foamboard like the walls. The lights are installed in what is basically a drop ceiling.

Have you tried using a proximity sensor to trace the existing wire path? This may help you determine how to pull new wires; cut hand holes for fishing or remove and replace the luann paneling.

[Jlawles2]

Based on how I THINK the wiring in our 303 slide is done, all the wires come up inside the outside wall, then across the top of the ceiling to the ends. From the for wall, the wiring travels down to the switch and back up to the overhead light (or could be awning).

I makes mores sense to make 1 wire chase run up the exterior wall then use the air gap in the ceiling as the wiring chase for the various points. The flooring system is already marginal.

Unfortunately there is not an "easy" way to chase wiring. I suggest removing the over table light and use that as your access point to figure out what's up there. The insulation in the ceiling can either be batting or foam, I would tend to think batting like the ceiling of the main body of the unit. Foam is primarily used in the walls due to the manufacturing process.