No ducting to bathroom vent in 260RD?

[Mike & Rebecca]

During the PDI for our 2022 Reflection 260RD I asked the dealer rep why there was no ducting attached to the floor vent in the bathroom. Every other vent in the trailer has ducting attached to it except this one. The dealer's answer was "it's supposed to be that way." When I asked what makes this one "special" and all the others have ducts attached, and the answer was "it's supposed to open into the underbelly." That still doesn't explain the "why," just the fact that it is the way it is. Does anyone else have a newer 260RD and can confirm yours is the same? Or did someone at the factory forget to connect the duct to this vent?

[TucsonJim]

Mike,

I pulled the Heat/Air plan drawing and it does not conform to your new 260RD. Looking at the picture you posted, that is the return air duct. It's is designed to allow air to return to your furnace.

According to the drawing, your return air duct is supposed to be located near the floor to the left of the stove. And there is supposed to be a ducted furnace outlet near the floor by the bathroom shower (close to the sink).

Do you have another ducted outlet in the bath? If so, it simply looks like GD updated the plan to move the floor return duct to the bathroom from the kitchen. This would put it closer to the furnace. If you don't have another duct in the bath, it might be interesting for me to ask GDRV why the floorplan does not match the drawing.

Jim

[Jlawles2]

Mike, I would not be surprised that GD installed a return there. The way the cabinet under the sink is constructed, there is a large gap between the face frame of the cabinet and the toe board where there is not bottom shelf in the cabinet (due to the drawers). This opening leads into the same area as the return behind the toilet. My guess is this is done to help with airflow through the camper.

[Cate&Rob]

Mike & Rebecca

Grand Design has always built 5th wheel trailers with a furnace air return on the main level and another on the upper level. There is no return air ductwork. The furnace draws intake air from its surrounding space and this air is replenished with floor level air including the opening behind the toilet. Attached picture is from my 2015 model with the same return grill open to the space underneath as in your 2002 picture.

Rob

[Mike & Rebecca]

TucsonJim, Jlawles2, and @cate&rob - thanks! That all makes sense. Do I have this correct - no duct to the vent = a return air flow to furnace. And ductwork = air from the furnace? By the way, the rep handling our PDI had an answer that was nowhere near yours. At least what you've explained makes sense. Thanks for the assist!

[Jlawles2]

Mike, you will find the non floor mounted ducts are from the heater. There should be only 1 floor mounted duct and that's the return. I know on my unit, the ducts dump under the cabinets and then there is a register just screwed to the toe board or filler board with no ducting from the floor penetration to the register.

[Cate&Rob]

Mike & Rebecca

When you have a chance, remove the aft wall of the pass-through storage area. This should be relatively easy with only a few screws down each side. A lot will be explained when you examine all that is back there. The wiring will be a mess . . . this is “normal” for RV construction. You will find your water pump and converter (battery charger). It is good to know where these are. Also the furnace with ductwork on the output side but just side openings for the intake side. You will be able to see how the opening behind the toilet supplies air to this space that the furnace draws from. The plumbing on the back of the water panel will look like a maze. (Check this area for any (not uncommon) water leaks. Take pictures and ask any questions here. We have all been down this path .

Rob

[Yoda]

During the PDI for our 2022 Reflection 260RD I asked the dealer rep why there was no ducting attached to the floor vent in the bathroom. Every other vent in the trailer has ducting attached to it except this one. The dealer's answer was "it's supposed to be that way." When I asked what makes this one "special" and all the others have ducts attached, and the answer was "it's supposed to open into the underbelly." That still doesn't explain the "why," just the fact that it is the way it is. Does anyone else have a newer 260RD and can confirm yours is the same? Or did someone at the factory forget to connect the duct to this vent?

I have the same return vent in my model 220RK. as Cate&Rob Rob mentions the wiring is a mess. but the slack is useful. If you ever need to pull your distribution center forward there is enough slack to get to the back, One thing to check on the furnace is are all the connection tight? I had to tape (foil tape) a few of mine to seal then to the furnace. Also looked for kinked furnace ducts too.

Enjoy your new trailer.
Keith

[Mike & Rebecca]

Mike & Rebecca

When you have a chance, remove the aft wall of the pass-through storage area. This should be relatively easy with only a few screws down each side. A lot will be explained when you examine all that is back there. The wiring will be a mess . . . this is “normal” for RV construction. You will find your water pump and converter (battery charger). It is good to know where these are. Also the furnace with ductwork on the output side but just side openings for the intake side. You will be able to see how the opening behind the toilet supplies air to this space that the furnace draws from. The plumbing on the back of the water panel will look like a maze. (Check this area for any (not uncommon) water leaks. Take pictures and ask any questions here. We have all been down this path .

Rob

Cate&Rob , I pulled the rear passthrough wall off today. Wow!! Lots of fun back there. I didn't have time today for a full inspection but maybe this weekend. It was a nice diversion from work today to take a quick peek. I'm betting others have replaced that wall with plexiglass to make it easier to spot a water leak. The good news was I found the Progressive Converter I'd been looking for (to confirm it wasn't a WFCO brand) and the water pump.

[Mike & Rebecca]

Mike,

I pulled the Heat/Air plan drawing and it does not conform to your new 260RD. Looking at the picture you posted, that is the return air duct. It's is designed to allow air to return to your furnace.

According to the drawing, your return air duct is supposed to be located near the floor to the left of the stove. And there is supposed to be a ducted furnace outlet near the floor by the bathroom shower (close to the sink).

Do you have another ducted outlet in the bath? If so, it simply looks like GD updated the plan to move the floor return duct to the bathroom from the kitchen. This would put it closer to the furnace. If you don't have another duct in the bath, it might be interesting for me to ask GDRV why the floorplan does not match the drawing.

Jim

TucsonJim , I made it out to the storage yard today to try to confirm so you could update your info on the 260RD. What I saw was no return air ducts on the main floor, just the one behind the toilet seat. There are ducted outlets by the entrance door (in drawer cabinetry,) one next to the stairs leading to the bedroom, a small one in the kick plate (not sure what it's called) under the bath sink cabinet, and a floor vent in the bedroom. My original question has been answered, just reporting back to let you know what I found.

[Cate&Rob]

Cate&Rob , I pulled the rear passthrough wall off today. Wow!! Lots of fun back there. I didn't have time today for a full inspection but maybe this weekend. It was a nice diversion from work today to take a quick peek. I'm betting others have replaced that wall with plexiglass to make it easier to spot a water leak. The good news was I found the Progressive Converter I'd been looking for (to confirm it wasn't a WFCO brand) and the water pump.

Hi Mike,

A way to inspect/access whats behind that wall is a good idea. The wall does need to be in place for the furnace air return to draw air from the living areas. Some have created hinged panels that open more easily, but this usually required unloading a fair amount of stuff from the pass through. I installed a plexiglas sliding panel that I can "inspect" through or open if I need to access something.

Rob

[JBill9694]

Maybe I'm just feeling argumentative today. but here I go:

First, we do not have an air return in the upper level of our fiver. Only return is under the bottom shelve of the pantry. The statement that GD always builds fivers with returns on both the upper and main level is incorrect.

Second, the separation between the basement storage area and the basement mechanical area is not airtight. The furnace will draw return air from the surrounding area and this includes the living area as well as the basement storage area regardless of whether the separating wall is in place. In fact, anecdotal review is that there is no difference in the air flow from the living area with and without the separating wall in place because the living area is the larger/easier source for the furnace to draw fresh air from. Another way to think about is that as the furnace draws return air from the storage area then replacement air has to flow in. This replacement air will be from the living area, unless the storage area external doors are left open.

And third, having a floor register in a wet area is poor engineering on GD's part. Any water on the floor from the shower, sink, or the toilet can too easily end up on the basement mechanical/electrical area. Not just a mess but an accident waiting to happen.

[Cate&Rob]

JBill9694
Hi John,

Counter perspectives are always welcome on this forum.

I have no idea why an upper level air return is not there on Momentums as it is on Reflections and Solitudes. I stand corrected on my "always build" comment.

Agreed that the basement wall is not airtight. It's reason for being there is probably more about protecting whats behind the wall from things stored in the pass through area.

Having an air return on the floor is going to have little affect on how fast water migrates from the bathroom floor to the area underneath and down the wall to the lower level. Obviously a trade off where some design teams at Grand Design felt that air return from the upper level was worth the risk of placing the opening on the floor. Others did not.

Rob

[DarnDave]

Cate&Rob I also don't want an argument (although I've been told I'm good at it), but even before we took delivery of our 21 Solitude 390, I asked where the furnace return was, because both in person and in photos it was not obvious. We have not a single floor register of any type--a very good thing IMO. We even sent an email to our GD area sales manager, prior to delivery. His response, after checking with someone in engineering, was what has turned out in fact to be an air register with ducting (the dogs love that one), low on the entertainment wall between the fireplace and the exterior wall. It's been 13 months since we took delivery, and there definitely is no dedicated return "register" or "grill" anywhere. The only place that I have found that is open to the mechanical area is the area where the radio and now our Wally satellite receiver, etc is located behind a hinged smoked glass panel between the TV and the fireplace. This compartment has no ceiling to it, it is just open. But if the glass panel is closed to its magnetic catch, that is a significant reduction of open space available for free airflow. And now in photos online, we can clearly see that GD has started to build this floorplan with a slot at the joint of the floor and the bottom of this entertainment wall.

Our furnace works well, but it is not getting its return air (easily) from the living area of the trailer. It has to be coming from the basement storage area. I've always thought this odd. If someone knows where ours might be, I am beyond curious.

[Yoda]

Cate&Rob I also don't want an argument (although I've been told I'm good at it), but even before we took delivery of our 21 Solitude 390, I asked where the furnace return was, because both in person and in photos it was not obvious. We have not a single floor register of any type--a very good thing IMO. We even sent an email to our GD area sales manager, prior to delivery. His response, after checking with someone in engineering, was what has turned out in fact to be an air register with ducting (the dogs love that one), low on the entertainment wall between the fireplace and the exterior wall. It's been 13 months since we took delivery, and there definitely is no dedicated return "register" or "grill" anywhere. The only place that I have found that is open to the mechanical area is the area where the radio and now our Wally satellite receiver, etc is located behind a hinged smoked glass panel between the TV and the fireplace. This compartment has no ceiling to it, it is just open. But if the glass panel is closed to its magnetic catch, that is a significant reduction of open space available for free airflow. And now in photos online, we can clearly see that GD has started to build this floorplan with a slot at the joint of the floor and the bottom of this entertainment wall.

Our furnace works well, but it is not getting its return air (easily) from the living area of the trailer. It has to be coming from the basement storage area. I've always thought this odd. If someone knows where ours might be, I am beyond curious.

Dave
OMG - I just took a look at your floor plan - WOW I cant believe your 1 ton is towing that. Congrats on a beautiful rig. However back to the subject. Based on my reflection there are plenty of air gaps around any of the floor penetrations to allow plenty of return air to the furnace, including any unsealed areas in the belly allowing outside air in. You also probably have a registrar like the OP has somewhere..
Just my thoughts