Fresh water pump

[Jennifer77]

2017 Reflections 297RSTS
I have just began my full time living and with the cold snap, the first time using the dry settings. I have noticed that I hear the water pump cycle about every 5 minutes or so, Is this normal?
I am new to all of this and just want to be sure. I started with a full fresh tank 3 days ago, and even then it still made the noise. Any feed back is appreciated!!

[howson]

2017 Reflections 297RSTS
I have just began my full time living and with the cold snap, the first time using the dry settings. I have noticed that I hear the water pump cycle about every 5 minutes or so, Is this normal?
I am new to all of this and just want to be sure. I started with a full fresh tank 3 days ago, and even then it still made the noise. Any feed back is appreciated!!

No, it should not cycle. If all the faucets are "off" (not dripping), the water pump should build pressure in the system and the system should hold the pressure.

The cycling you're hearing may indicate a water leak, unfortunately. A close inspection is highly recommended, starting at the water panel (where you'll find the pump).

TucsonJim had a 297RSTS -- I think it was a '17, too -- so he may be able to advise further.

Welcome to the forum!

Howard

[Country Campers]

The pump cycling when there is no call for water should not happen every 5 minutes. It should not happen at all but once an hour might be acceptable. I think you may have a small leak somewhere, finding it will be the hard part. In the pass thru storage where you hook the water hose to the RV, this panel is called the Nautilus panel. There should be a removable panel on the side of the Nautilus panel. You will need a square drive screw driver to remove this, #2 robertson screw driver. Once removed you will see the back of the Nautilus panel and all of its connections, here you may find that one of the connections is leaking, hand tighten the ones you find. There are plenty of other connections but these are the easiest to get to. Also check under the kitchen sink and bath sink and also behind the toilet.

TucsonJim and others here have or still own a 297RSTS like you do so they should be along to further help you.

Brian

[Cate&Rob]

Unfortunately, the pump cycling that you describe indicates a pressure drop caused by a leak somewhere. This could be a dripping faucet, a toilet flush not shutting off completely or a plumbing leak somewhere. Check all the plumbing that you can see, under sinks, etc. Check the underbelly of the trailer to make sure it is not bulging down (containing water). Welcome to the world of RV living.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

Fortunately on the 297, examining the back of the Nautilus panel and around the water heater are pretty easy. Just remove the panel at the back of the basement to get a good look at the back of the water panel. For the water heater area, you can remove the two drawers in the bedroom and you'll be able to see quite a bit of the plumbing. On my 297, the pump would cycle on about once every 12 hours. I never found a leak.

Jim

[Jennifer77]

Thank you ALL for the feedback!
Cate&Rob I checked all faucets and connections inside, no leaks. I will begin checking the under side when this cold snap is done in a few days.(Texas winter is only about 5 days long)
I have timed the cycle of the pump, and I over exaggerated with my claim of 5 minutes 🙄 it's more like 20 minutes.

howson, yes Mr. Jim did have the same year and model, but I have read he has a newer model now.
Country Campers, thank you for the specifics on tools needed and of where to start my check.

[Jlawles2]

If you do not find a leak in any of the plumbing you could have a pump starting to leak internally. Internally there are check valves. As the valve(s) start failing they let pressure bleed back through the pump into the tank. Once the output pressure drops below the cut in point, the pump turns on and rebuilds the pressure.

I believe someone had this issue in the past and there is a thread in the forum about it.

[Lonestar]

If you do not find a leak in any of the plumbing you could have a pump starting to leak internally. Internally there are check valves. As the valve(s) start failing they let pressure bleed back through the pump into the tank. Once the output pressure drops below the cut in point, the pump turns on and rebuilds the pressure.

I believe someone had this issue in the past and there is a thread in the forum about it.

How could you test for this?

[Cate&Rob]

How could you test for this?

If you were to put an in-line check valve on the pump output and this solved the problem, you would know that the original leak was back through the pump.

Rob

[TedS]

Disconnect the pump suction from the pump and see if water drips from it indicating that water is flowing back through the pump.

[Jlawles2]

As the leak back is extremely small, it's a very difficult test to perform.

The only 2 ways I know to do this test are:
Option 1: Rob mentions a check valve on the output, I'm not convinced the pump will not still cycle as the cut in switch is still on the pump. I would think that you would need a pressure gauge downstream of the check valve. However a vacuum check on the input may do the trick.

Option 2 (the messy one): Using at least 2 valves and a Tee, cut into the pump suction line. Put one valve upstream (aka suction) of the tee and the other on the non pump branch (aka vent). With the non pump branch pointing UP, close the suction valve, open the vent valve and fill the vent until water is at the top. Close the vent (this must be done first to maintain prime on the pump), then open the suction and turn on the pump. Once the pump stops with everything in the camper closed (plumbing fixtures), close the suction valve, open the vent valve and turn off the pump. NOW wait, if the pump is loosing pressure through it's check valves, the bubble of water on the vent line will get larger and run over as the pex lines contract slightly due to the leak.

Option 2 is not an easy, cheap, or clean test to perform. Option to the open vent would be to put in a valve and just close off the suction. If the pressure on the valve goes up, the pump is back bleeding.

[Yoda]

Thank you ALL for the feedback!
Cate&Rob I checked all faucets and connections inside, no leaks. I will begin checking the under side when this cold snap is done in a few days.(Texas winter is only about 5 days long)
I have timed the cycle of the pump, and I over exaggerated with my claim of 5 minutes 🙄 it's more like 20 minutes.

howson, yes Mr. Jim did have the same year and model, but I have read he has a newer model now.
Country Campers, thank you for the specifics on tools needed and of where to start my check.

What I do is only have the pump on when needed - otherwise it is off. I also turn it off when leaving the trailer (as well as city water when hooked up) just in case. I once had a supersize mess and learned this lesson.

[TravelHabit]

In a perfect world there should be no cycling at all but as Yoda notes it pays to be careful and turn off the pump when not used -- even though it's likely a hassle for a full timer.

Hate to say it but, given the freezing conditions, there is a good chance something expanded and worked its way loose. The braided tubing connections GD uses are notorious for this which is why many folks have retrofitted to pex. Many posts on this. Given its every 20 min, the leak is small and therefore will be very hard to find. I had a case of a small leak that was covered up by the expanding foam around where a tube routed to below the trailer. It was a fitting/connection that loosened up over time. In another case, soon after I got the trailer, I had a situation where the filter was not screwed on the pump tightly. Simple tightening ~ 90 deg. and the cycling went away! Easy solution but it took me hours to find that this indeed was the source.

One thing that will decrease general cycling is to install a accumulator tank (e.g. this: amazon.com). Having one may make it easier to find a leak since it will keep the leak running after the pump cuts out. It also makes the pump more efficient. I installed the one linked and have been happy with it.

[Popga]

In a perfect world there should be no cycling at all but as Yoda notes it pays to be careful and turn off the pump when not used -- even though it's likely a hassle for a full timer.

Hate to say it but, given the freezing conditions, there is a good chance something expanded and worked its way loose. The braided tubing connections GD uses are notorious for this which is why many folks have retrofitted to pex. Many posts on this. Given its every 20 min, the leak is small and therefore will be very hard to find. I had a case of a small leak that was covered up by the expanding foam around where a tube routed to below the trailer. It was a fitting/connection that loosened up over time. In another case, soon after I got the trailer, I had a situation where the filter was not screwed on the pump tightly. Simple tightening ~ 90 deg. and the cycling went away! Easy solution but it took me hours to find that this indeed was the source.

One thing that will decrease general cycling is to install a accumulator tank (e.g. this: amazon.com). Having one may make it easier to find a leak since it will keep the leak running after the pump cuts out. It also makes the pump more efficient. I installed the one linked and have been happy with it.

Earl,
Where did you install it? Any pictures you can share?
Erik

[Lonestar]

As the leak back is extremely small, it's a very difficult test to perform.

The only 2 ways I know to do this test are:
Option 1: Rob mentions a check valve on the output, I'm not convinced the pump will not still cycle as the cut in switch is still on the pump. I would think that you would need a pressure gauge downstream of the check valve. However a vacuum check on the input may do the trick.

Option 2 (the messy one): Using at least 2 valves and a Tee, cut into the pump suction line. Put one valve upstream (aka suction) of the tee and the other on the non pump branch (aka vent). With the non pump branch pointing UP, close the suction valve, open the vent valve and fill the vent until water is at the top. Close the vent (this must be done first to maintain prime on the pump), then open the suction and turn on the pump. Once the pump stops with everything in the camper closed (plumbing fixtures), close the suction valve, open the vent valve and turn off the pump. NOW wait, if the pump is loosing pressure through it's check valves, the bubble of water on the vent line will get larger and run over as the pex lines contract slightly due to the leak.

Option 2 is not an easy, cheap, or clean test to perform. Option to the open vent would be to put in a valve and just close off the suction. If the pressure on the valve goes up, the pump is back bleeding.

I think the pressure gauge would be the easiest, and I bet the outside shower faucet would be the easiest access point. The blue coiled shower hose has male hose threads on one end. Just put a female hose thread fitting on a pressure gauge and it should work, without having to cut into any lines.

I wonder how much psi differential there is between the cut off/cut on points of the pressure switch?