Furrion Tankless Water Heater - Important: Please Read

[gtippett]

Thanks ncitro and Cate&Rob for your feedback. I completely understand pulling the two plugs on the ODWH. We also run the furnace all the time at a minimum of 16C, so that is a benefit... but I am worried about cold air coming directly into the heater exchanger from the exhaust port.... on that note, I have never had my water supply hose freeze within a foot of entering the trailer... but I have had it freeze outside of that point. Thoughts on running the hot water overnight on a drip from a tap... we do that a lot up here in the mountains to prevent the lines from freezing... as moving water takes longer to freeze... thoughts?

For the most part, we don't see -5C overnight too much during our camping period (May 1 to Oct 20). So I am going to run with the Floe system to get the water out of the lines. I think 15psi will push most of the water out. I will be leaving all the plugs out and taps open during the months of May and Oct due to the risk of freeze. If a little bit of water is left in the copper lines I hope the remaining air space will provide that needed space for expansion.

[Mike & Rebecca]

ncitro , you wrote "You need both drains pulled and want air or antifreeze (I would leave it to you to pick how you do it) to run freely out the drains." Are you thinking that both plugs need to be pulled out before running the pump to draw in the antifreeze to the hot water heater? Or are you saying just pull them both after pumping in the antifreeze to make sure antifreeze made it all the way to the end of the two drain tubes? I'm not sure there's much of a difference but wondering if the pump will be able to draw the anti-freeze through the system while both plugs are out.

[ncitro]

ncitro , you wrote "You need both drains pulled and want air or antifreeze (I would leave it to you to pick how you do it) to run freely out the drains." Are you thinking that both plugs need to be pulled out before running the pump to draw in the antifreeze to the hot water heater? Or are you saying just pull them both after pumping in the antifreeze to make sure antifreeze made it all the way to the end of the two drain tubes? I'm not sure there's much of a difference but wondering if the pump will be able to draw the anti-freeze through the system while both plugs are out.

You do not want the heater under pressure when you remove the plug, that will be messy and a good way to lose the plug

If it was me I would do the following (I would use anti-freeze)

1. Set the Nautilus panel to Winterize, but turn the pump off and leave the water heater bypass off (red valve) so anti-freeze WILL enter the water heater
2. Connect your winterizing hose to the panel and put it in your anti-freeze jug (leave the pump off for now)
3. Open a hot faucet to relieve pressure in the system, then close the faucet
4. Remove both drain plugs from the water heater
5. Turn on the water pump, watch the water heater for anti-freeze to run from both drains
6. Turn off the pump, reinstall the drain plugs
7. Proceed with winterizing the rest of the plumbing if needed, or if you want to use your cold water plumbing with the water heater winterized, turn the red water heater bypass valve in the Nautilus panel so water cannot enter the water heater.

This is just my recommendation, there are definitely other methods, and they may work as well or better, but after having seen the heater in person when we were at Lippert/Furrion, and looking at the failures we have seen posted here I think this is the best way to prevent an issue.

howson Country Campers Cate&Rob TucsonJim Any thoughts on this process as I laid it out?

[TucsonJim]

You do not want the heater under pressure when you remove the plug, that will be messy and a good way to lose the plug

If it was me I would do the following (I would use anti-freeze)

1. Set the Nautilus panel to Winterize, but turn the pump off and leave the water heater bypass off (red valve) so anti-freeze WILL enter the water heater
2. Connect your winterizing hose to the panel and put it in your anti-freeze jug (leave the pump off for now)
3. Open a hot faucet to relieve pressure in the system, then close the faucet
4. Remove both drain plugs from the water heater
5. Turn on the water pump, watch the water heater for anti-freeze to run from both drains
6. Turn off the pump, reinstall the drain plugs
7. Proceed with winterizing the rest of the plumbing if needed, or if you want to use your cold water plumbing with the water heater winterized, turn the red water heater bypass valve in the Nautilus panel so water cannot enter the water heater.

This is just my recommendation, there are definitely other methods, and they may work as well or better, but after having seen the heater in person when we were at Lippert/Furrion, and looking at the failures we have seen posted here I think this is the best way to prevent an issue.

howson Country Campers Cate&Rob TucsonJim Any thoughts on this process as I laid it out?

Neil - If I had one of these water heaters, that is exactly the way I'd approach winterizing the unit.

Jim

[howson]

ncitro and Mike & Rebecca

Jay Loomis, Grand Design Product Specialist for the Reflection line, put out the video below back in October. (I've just recently found it myself.) He emphasizes the critical need to blow out the Furrion with air first, then add antifreeze with the Nautilus set to City Water, not Winterization.

Howard

[ncitro]

ncitro and Mike & Rebecca

Jay Loomis, Grand Design Product Specialist for the Reflection line, put out the video below back in October. (I've just recently found it myself.) He emphasizes the critical need to blow out the Furrion with air first, then add antifreeze with the Nautilus set to City Water, not Winterization.

Howard

I think that video is good for the blowing out portion, but he only glosses over the anti-freeze portion, which personally I think is more important. You can not leave the valves in "city" to pump in anti-freeze, as the pump will not draw through the hose in the "city water" position. You need to turn the blue lever in order to align the plumbing to draw in the anti-freeze, I found it easier to describe this as set the panel to "winterize" except the red lever, but I suppose it could be also described as "city" and also turn the blue lever?

[howson]

I think that video is good for the blowing out portion, but he only glosses over the anti-freeze portion, which personally I think is more important. You can not leave the valves in "city" to pump in anti-freeze, as the pump will not draw through the hose in the "city water" position. You need to turn the blue lever in order to align the plumbing to draw in the anti-freeze, I found it easier to describe this as set the panel to "winterize" except the red lever, but I suppose it could be also described as "city" and also turn the blue lever?

Good point. I missed that.

[gtippett]

Hey Everyone, just to confirm the water heater isolation. I would assume this just closes the loop to the hot water tank, so when open the cold water flows to the heater then back to the hot water pipes, and when close the cold water flows to the hot water pipes. Are we sure that when closed no water will flow back to the hot water tank? Was any of this confirmed by Grand Design / Lippert / Furrion? I think I will test that this weekend... by removing the drain plugs, close the hot water bypass valve (red valve) and then pressure the system, if not water comes out of the water heater then it is fully disconnected.

[ncitro]

Hey Everyone, just to confirm the water heater isolation. I would assume this just closes the loop to the hot water tank, so when open the cold water flows to the heater then back to the hot water pipes, and when close the cold water flows to the hot water pipes. Are we sure that when closed no water will flow back to the hot water tank? Was any of this confirmed by Grand Design / Lippert / Furrion? I think I will test that this weekend... by removing the drain plugs, close the hot water bypass valve (red valve) and then pressure the system, if not water comes out of the water heater then it is fully disconnected.

We have not gotten confirmation of that yet. I have a friend with one of these and I have been meaning to check if there is a check valve on the output but have not had a chance. If you can do that experiment that would be a huge help to everyone with on of these units.

[howson]

ncitro -- I now may be thinking about this too deeply, but by opening the drain lines does the anti-freeze make it to the mixing valve? I don't know for sure how the water flows through the appliance.

If someone gets creative and opens a hot water faucet to get antifreeze fluid to flow through all trailer's hot water lines and ensure the entire Furrion Tankless has antifreeze, will the Furrion fire on? What happens in that scenario with anti-freeze in the lines? Is there an ON/OFF button like there is in the old-fashioned 6 gallon water heater in my 315RLTS or does water flow automatically cause the Furrion to turn on?

So much I still don't know about these units...

[Cate&Rob]

gtippett

It might be wise to place a wireless remote temperature monitor (or maybe a couple of them) inside the water heater box, to learn actual temperatures with different propane furnace set temperatures and outside ambient temperatures and wind conditions.

I run electric heat in the underbelly (see post 26 of this thread https://gdrvowners.com/forum/exterio...derbelly/page2) I control this heater with a residential thermostat inside the underbelly, but monitor it with a wireless remote temperature sensor. I can see a wide range of warming capability depending on outside wind and temperature and whether or not the interior of the RV is being heated as well. There are a lot of variables to heating and/or heat retention!

Rob

[ncitro]

ncitro -- I now may be thinking about this too deeply, but by opening the drain lines does the anti-freeze make it to the mixing valve? I don't know for sure how the water flows through the appliance.

If someone gets creative and opens a hot water faucet to get antifreeze fluid to flow through all trailer's hot water lines and ensure the entire Furrion Tankless has antifreeze, will the Furrion fire on? What happens in that scenario with anti-freeze in the lines? Is there an ON/OFF button like there is in the old-fashioned 6 gallon water heater in my 315RLTS or does water flow automatically cause the Furrion to turn on?

So much I still don't know about these units...

Thats a valid point I had not thought of. I guess you could do as I described, to ensure the water is purged through to the drains and then put the plugs back in and run the hot water taps to ensure it goes through the rest? Starts to get really convoluted though.

[howson]

Thats a valid point I had not thought of. I guess you could do as I described, to ensure the water is purged through to the drains and then put the plugs back in and run the hot water taps to ensure it goes through the rest? Starts to get really convoluted though.

You and WondersAwait need to figure this out for us (and video the process). If you can dig into how the unit if powered on and off (other than the flow detector we already know about) that would be helpful, too.

[ncitro]

You and WondersAwait need to figure this out for us (and video the process). If you can dig into how the unit if powered on and off (other than the flow detector we already know about) that would be helpful, too.

There is a control panel on the wall in the bathroom you use to set the temperature and turn it on and off from. I am confident if its turned off there (no switch in the control center anymore) then it should not come on when pumping antifreeze through it.

[WondersAwait]

I can confirm that panel on the bathroom wall had a power switch and will turn the unit off regardless of flow. I can take a photo of this later today but I'm not at my rig currently.