Undersized axles on Momentum 320G or just poor design?

[ncitro]

chikenstiker Apples and oranges but I went the other way to level mine out by lowering the rear end. I took out the 4" spacers in the back and replaced them with 2" F250 spacers. This allowed me to raise my pin box and increase the bed clearance. Being nose high would certainly contribute to sway. IIRC the DRW trucks had shorter spacers as well, so his might be towing more level than you and would have shorter tires (possibly with a stiffer sidewall).

[chikenstiker]

I'm thinking you should be seeing more than a 40lb increase on your front axle especially with family, and other items in the truck. Comparisons can help isolate an issue where it's interesting that rebel23 is not seeing an issue with about the same mass in the garage. Can you post a side pic of your rig on the TV ready for a trip? Some folks have had a sub-frame added to the trailer for a TV that sits too high. Nose of the trailer should be level or slightly down in the front.

Jim

Weighed Truck and Trailer, then just the Truck at the CAT scales. Had everything loaded except my wife was in the shop to pay for the weighing both times. Front axles only gained 40 lbs with 5er connected. The weight of the 5er would have little effect on the front wheels since it's loaded directly over the back axles. I have my Companion in the forward position and using the Ford Puck System.

I'll see if i have a pick, I think the only one with it connected was my first trip and it was high in front. I started with Hitch in highest position for pickup, then lowered it one hole before 1st trip and lowered a second hole after that trip. The front of the rid is upward and I understand level or down is best but that is impossible with this truck and rig. The new trucks are so damn tall! I have a slightly taller tire, but that's only worth 1/2", no lift. With a 2" leveling kit and 60 PSI in the bags the truck sits almost perfectly level with 5 PSI it sags a couple of inches and bounces and sways worse. I settled on 55-65 PSI in air bags, 60 and higher the ride is too rough if the road isn't smooth, below 50 and I get a lot more body movement and sway.

[chikenstiker]

I do have everything you list except I only have 2 AC’s and it is just me and my wife so we are not loaded down, I have not been on the scales yet but I will one day. We do put everything but the bike on or in front of axles, I guess I’ve just been lucky so far. I am getting a little nervous now if or when we go on longer trips😳, like Oshkosh in July, and I fill the fresh water tank.

Jim

yeah, with your set up of 2 being a bit lighter and probably no bedding and stuff in the back and not carrying water and having a truck with a little higher capacity you're probably just a bit better set than I.

[chikenstiker]

chikenstiker Apples and oranges but I went the other way to level mine out by lowering the rear end. I took out the 4" spacers in the back and replaced them with 2" F250 spacers. This allowed me to raise my pin box and increase the bed clearance. Being nose high would certainly contribute to sway. IIRC the DRW trucks had shorter spacers as well, so his might be towing more level than you and would have shorter tires (possibly with a stiffer sidewall).

I have contemplated that! I just worried I'd hit way too much offroad with a CCLB. The truck is NOT inducing the sway, it is all coming from the trailer, I can see it in the mirror and when it's bad I can feel it in the truck. I have the Truck tires at 80 PSI, I've added Front and Rear Heavy Duty Sway bars. Those made a huge difference especially empty, now you feel the truck getting pushed side to side when the trailer tries to sway it instead of leaning and weaving from body roll. Much more planted, but still gets pushed around.

Looking in the mirror you can see the trailer sway while holding truck perfectly straight. I think it may follow the road a bit, then it goes back and forth a couple small times. If it's windy or a big ole truck goes by I can see the trailer swaying 6-8" while truck is going straight.

I know that the front is a tad high, but don't have an easy way to lower it and don't feel that's the whole issue, I've towed a lot of trailers and that's never made this much difference. Shoot I see 5ers with the front 2-3" high all the time going down the road, buddy has a 4" lift on his F350 DRW and his is planted solid, he's the one who talked me into a 5er. LOL

I plan to borrow his truck and see what difference a DRW makes?

[Guest]

I would think with just driver and passengers, gear, etc in the truck this would add 40lbs to the front axle but I will never know. When I began to weigh my truck the DW bailed out since she knew I could do the math.

Jim

[chikenstiker]

I would think with just driver and passengers, gear, etc in the truck this would add 40lbs to the front axle but I will never know. When I began to weigh my truck the DW bailed out since she knew I could do the math.

Jim

The weight I am referring to is completely loaded truck by itself vs completely loaded truck with 5er attached. So the 5th wheel being attached only adds 40 lbs to front axles while adding 2500 lbs to rear axles. I think you are thinking of an empty truck vs loaded, this is ready to go truck vs ready to go truck and trailer.

[TheNescios]

Checked the chart I've been keeping of weights empty/loaded for different trips
Front axle is typically 4700 lbs full fuel, no trailer and increases 200-250 lbs with the trailer
Rear axle is typically 3600 lbs full fuel, no trailer and increases 3500 lbs with the trailer - not all of this is pin weight, probably 500 lbs of it is stuff I put in there
In a perfect world I'd like to see the front axle take more weight - and will be moving the Pullrite slider forward from the "factory" settings soon.
(and yes, have meausered, remeasured, and even created a scaled drawing to verify clearances)

No sway issues and everything tows well, just keep thinking if there was an emergency a little extra weight on the front axle might help?

Very intrigued by what is causing the swaying issue.... after the recent posts starting to wonder if the springs might be allowing the 5th wheel to "roll" side to side as wind buffets it and the road changes?
What if they're just "adequate" but flexing more than what the rest of us are with our 5th wheels? Not sure how you'd check or monitor how they're reacting while driving.

[ncitro]

Checked the chart I've been keeping of weights empty/loaded for different trips
Front axle is typically 4700 lbs full fuel, no trailer and increases 200-250 lbs with the trailer
Rear axle is typically 3600 lbs full fuel, no trailer and increases 3500 lbs with the trailer - not all of this is pin weight, probably 500 lbs of it is stuff I put in there
In a perfect world I'd like to see the front axle take more weight - and will be moving the Pullrite slider forward from the "factory" settings soon.
(and yes, have meausered, remeasured, and even created a scaled drawing to verify clearances)

No sway issues and everything tows well, just keep thinking if there was an emergency a little extra weight on the front axle might help?

Very intrigued by what is causing the swaying issue.... after the recent posts starting to wonder if the springs might be allowing the 5th wheel to "roll" side to side as wind buffets it and the road changes?
What if they're just "adequate" but flexing more than what the rest of us are with our 5th wheels? Not sure how you'd check or monitor how they're reacting while driving.

I would all but guarantee that the sway is being caused by not enough pin weight. As he has stated, he has no way to change that ratio due to the design of the trailer, so all he can do is find the best way to keep the sway under control. Unfortunately not usually an issue with fifth wheels (and the main reason most of us go that route). A dually might help, I will be curious what you find when you hitch up to your buddies truck. Just be aware that it's not eliminating the sway, it's just masking it. Thats probably the best you are going to be able to hope for, but be aware if it tows well with the dually I would not be surprised if it comes back in a nasty cross wind or when a truck passes.

[chikenstiker]

I would all but guarantee that the sway is being caused by not enough pin weight. As he has stated, he has no way to change that ratio due to the design of the trailer, so all he can do is find the best way to keep the sway under control. Unfortunately not usually an issue with fifth wheels (and the main reason most of us go that route). A dually might help, I will be curious what you find when you hitch up to your buddies truck. Just be aware that it's not eliminating the sway, it's just masking it. Thats probably the best you are going to be able to hope for, but be aware if it tows well with the dually I would not be surprised if it comes back in a nasty cross wind or when a truck passes.

Completely agree, I think it's just a design flaw. The water tanks can't be moved and any toys in the garage and it's light on the Pin. Even w/o water it's lighter than it "should be". a DRW would probably help, but it's a not getting rid of the issue like you say. At that point I decide to work around it or sell the trailer and move one? ate to lose money and have to order and wait for something again, waited 3 months for this one. LOL

Thanks for the input!

[chikenstiker]

Checked the chart I've been keeping of weights empty/loaded for different trips
Front axle is typically 4700 lbs full fuel, no trailer and increases 200-250 lbs with the trailer
Rear axle is typically 3600 lbs full fuel, no trailer and increases 3500 lbs with the trailer - not all of this is pin weight, probably 500 lbs of it is stuff I put in there
In a perfect world I'd like to see the front axle take more weight - and will be moving the Pullrite slider forward from the "factory" settings soon.
(and yes, have meausered, remeasured, and even created a scaled drawing to verify clearances)

No sway issues and everything tows well, just keep thinking if there was an emergency a little extra weight on the front axle might help?

Very intrigued by what is causing the swaying issue.... after the recent posts starting to wonder if the springs might be allowing the 5th wheel to "roll" side to side as wind buffets it and the road changes?
What if they're just "adequate" but flexing more than what the rest of us are with our 5th wheels? Not sure how you'd check or monitor how they're reacting while driving.

My Front Axle loaded for trip no trailer was 5340 and rear 4340. I'm a longbed maybe that's why more weight doesn't go on the Front when hooked up? No way for me to move it forward anymore or I would.

[howson]

Had everything loaded except my wife was in the shop to pay for the weighing both times.

Try the Weigh My Truck app. Super easy to use and convenient--no going inside.

[chikenstiker]

Try the Weigh My Truck app. Super easy to use and convenient--no going inside.

Thanks! I downloaded it and was creating an account when the guy got on the speaker and wife had already run in to pee. LOL

[ThePowells]

Mine gains180# on the steer.

[Guest]

Well there ya go. It makes sense that some mass would be transmitted to the front axle with the 5er over the rear axle and everything else between the axles.

Jim

[Wileykid]

I was the one that informed RoyB of the (new) option of the 8K lb axles, as I ordered mine with them in early February due to his writing on another forum.

As to his comment on a better balanced trailer, I just did my first trip with my new 320G. Here are some numbers that I got.

Factory: UVW: 13,078
Pin: 2510 (19%)

My numbers (CAT scale) with little less than a 1/4 tank of gas, misc junk/clothing/pots pans..etc. Originally started out with about 20 gallons of water, but most siphoned off somewhere in the trip. A 460 lb motorcycle, and I put on a Reese Sidewinder, which weighs about 150 lbs more than the stock pin box:

Trailer weight: 14,460
Pin: 2520 (17%)

To the balance, I would like more pin weight, but not excited about filling the forward black or grey tank on the trip home. Almost think I should replace the mattress with a water bed...

An update on this post, I now put 20 gallons of water in the grey tank. I flush it first, and put in fresh water, so dumping is not an issue. I have not re-weighed it, but it has pretty much eliminated my sway, although every so often, I think I can see an inch or two of sway, but that could be the road causing it. Not sure what else can be done, other than welding a 300 lb lead weight to the top of the pin box. Next trip, I will get back on the scales.

With the trailer, my front axle weight only goes up 20 lbs.