Spring Project Solar Install Momentum 21G

[Yoda]

acoleman43
WOW! I am late to this party Excellent job. I was going to say throw the plans away, double the budget, and wing it.along with take wiring bends into consideration, but you covered and experienced that - welcome to the elete group of hard knocks solar.

I only have one suggestion. Please mount one or more quality smoke/ionization detectors in your equipment compartments. I only say this as most of the components you installed say to mount on a non flammable service. I have not heard of an issue to date....but? I mounted everything on 1/4"aluminum - probably overkill.

Yep it can be a pain changing batterys and dealing withe the chirping - but your family is more important. I added one to my set up on Howards howson recommendation ( yep he had me spend more money). To me Family safety comes first. Just my thought

Looking forward to how everything performs.

Keith.

BTW I will need to look into your battery bank - great information. I was headed in the SOK direction, but that change is a few years out. Thanks

[howson]

acoleman43 -- I'll echo Yoda 's sentiments: Wow! Well conceived and executed. It's a lot of work to get it right (and expense to get the right equipment) but it sure is nice to have on the road. My setup has made this current trip I'm on much more comfortable numerous times due to the capability that's now in the trailer.

Howard

[acoleman43]

Yoda howson I hate to admit it...but I didn't think about that. 2 ionization/photoelectric detectors have been ordered and will be installed next week.

Also thanks for the encouragement and feedback. It's been a fun, frustrating, educational, cool project.

[Yoda]

Yoda howson I hate to admit it...but I didn't think about that. 2 ionization/photoelectric detectors have been ordered and will be installed next week.

Also thanks for the encouragement and feedback. It's been a fun, frustrating, educational, cool project.

[acoleman43]

Update:

Old panel removed, new panel (almost) installed. The new panel gives me more DC fuse slots and allows me to convert to 50 amp split phase if I ever get to that point. If not, not a problem because the panel is designed for single phase 30 amp OR split phase 50 amp.

This was not an easy task because it's 100+ degrees of Texas heat and it was like a sauna in that trailer. I did pull an extension chord in the trailer and had a fan blowing which made it much better.

Also new ATS in back. I have had issues with it's buzzing sound. That typically means loose electrical connections. This was the case. After tightening them the buzzing sound was much less....but it's still there. I'll have o remove and check ALL connections. If it continues to buzz I will replace with a different brand.

Also removed is the converter. Because I have a multiplus to charge the batteries and 10KWH+ of batteries, I don't think I'll need a converter.

There are a couple more issues that need to be resolved. That will be at the end of this post.




The best news so far is the multiplus works!

I connected a single battery, updated firmware and configured the multiplus with VictronConnect, and the GX Touch/Cerbo GX. Tested all AC and DC devices/outlets (found 2 issues at the bottom of this post) while plugged into shore power.

Then I unplugged shore power, turned on a bunch of lights, then turned on the air conditioner. and it all worked. The soft start did what it had to do and the multiplus did what it had to do. sucking in 1400W means the battery is good for about 1.9 hours of air conditioning. WIth 4 batteries that's almost 10 hours without any charging from solar panels (yet to be installed).

As Charlie Sheen said....WINNING!



Now the bad news. 2 major issues that I will have to work out:

1- The multiplus and DC-DC converters generate A LOT of heat when being used. I ordered more fans and am now revising the whole fan system to move air around efficiently for all the devices. I am also ordering more vents to aid in airflow.

2- Since installing the new panel. The motor for the schwintek slide-out and the motor for the Happijac bed system is not working. To make troubleshooting more difficult, the Happijac beds are in the up position which block access to the Happijac motor. I can't test for power at the motor. There is a way to manually lower the beds, but you have to disconnect motor and flip a brake lever at the top of the motor. Not the best design Lippert. For the schwintek motor, I don't see power at the slide controller which means there is no power at the motor. Because the slide controller is the easiest to access, I'll probably connect a 12V battery directly to the slide controller. That will tell me where I look next.

2 steps forward, one step back. But, it's moving forward .

[acoleman43]

Weekend update:

Issue #2 resolved. The Schwintek controller has 2 power inputs. One for the switch/relay and the other for the motor. The Happijac controller has just one power input for both switch and motor. The wires for the motors were connected to self resetting breakers under the mess of wires behind the distribution center. They combined into one wire which was connected to the main DC+ in the distribution panel. I missed that initially, but it's all good now.

Issue #1 is next weeks project.

Because I went with a 24V battery/multiplus, I had to steo down to 12V for the main DC system. I have 2 DC-DC converters that handle this - one for the distribution panel (70 amp) and one for the "always on" system of tongue jack, emergency brake, co2 detectors, etc (25 amp). BUT, I completely forgot about the starter for the onboard generator. ouch.

I wanted to find a high output DC-DC converter (24v to 12v). Generator manufacturer literature recommends a 445 CCA battery. That's a lot of amps. Any convert putting out enough current to start the generator was about $500+ and was large. That won't work.

Another solution was to swap the 12v starter for a 24v starter. The 24v starter was almost $800 and I would have to pull the generator to swap it. That won't work.

The solution that I grudgingly came up with is to keep one 12v battery just for the generator starter. Bummer, I really wanted to keep the trailer tongue free of batteries.

This created another problem: how to keep the 12v battery charged? I could have a separate, small, solar panel with charge controller for less than $100, or I get a 12v charger just for that battery.

I opted for the 12v charger for the generator battery. I installed it in a back corner of a storage area in the bedroom. It was a pain to get it in there, but the back end that has the fuse is accessible and it is in a protected environment.

I opted for a smart charger that I can setup and use with my phone. I've become a fan of Victron which works well with VictronConnect. I'm happy with the results.




Another issue that has caused a lot of frustration was the new automatic transfer switch I installed about 4 or 5 weeks ago. The Southwire 41300 is a terrible transfer switch. This same switch has many other branding but seems to always be model 41300. I would NOT recommend this switch.

The installation was OK. The ground bus is in a terrible location that partially blocks the output hot wire. It is cheap plastic and the lid is difficult to remove (which I ended up doing several times).

I worked around all those issues. The issue that caused me to uninstall this switch and add the WFCO T30 was the constant buzzing from the 41300. In my mind that just means a meltdown/fire is around the corner. These switches shouldn't buzz. The solution is to tighten the neutral and hot connection WAY beyond the manufacturers specs. The buzzing then turns to a very quiet buzz that can be buried behind the distribution panel.....but it's still there.

After one trip the loud buzzing was back. I had to remove the distribution panel, remove the ATS, and tighten the connections again. Nope, this is not acceptable. So I switched it with the WFCO T30.

Picture of the NOT recommended ATS below. PS....does anybody need an almost brand new 30 amp ATS




But the biggest accomplishment was to finally install the new panel in it's permanent location. This means ALL interior work is complete. That was a lot more work than anticipated. I'm very relieved to have the interior buttoned up and working properly with a proper ATS not buzzing



Next is to finish the fans/ventilation system, apply the finishing touches (caulking, trim, etc) in the exterior storage area, and install all batteries and all solar panels. I can see the light.....

[Jlawles2]

OK, I'm going to ask the incredibly dumb question. Why not just tap into the batteries at the mid point to draw 12V for starting the generator only. Since they have a BMS and balance, the short draw for starting the generator should not create an issue.

[acoleman43]

OK, I'm going to ask the incredibly dumb question. Why not just tap into the batteries at the mid point to draw 12V for starting the generator only. Since they have a BMS and balance, the short draw for starting the generator should not create an issue.

That would be easy, and that was my original plan, but the batteries are 24v and the generator starter is 12v ;(

[Jlawles2]

Looking at the batteries, are those tapped holes in the tie plates between the individual cells? If so, then mid point tapping for the generator may be possible. HOWEVER you will need to determine how to tap the system. I think I did it backwards. The 24v Negative would be the common negative even for the 12v tap, then count back 4 cells and make the positive tap (only to the gen set).

[acoleman43]

Looking at the batteries, are those tapped holes in the tie plates between the individual cells? If so, then mid point tapping for the generator may be possible. HOWEVER you will need to determine how to tap the system. I think I did it backwards. The 24v Negative would be the common negative even for the 12v tap, then count back 4 cells and make the positive tap (only to the gen set).

I see what you're saying now. Yes, those are tapped holes for the BMS leads. To be honest, I don't know if I can do that or not. It's an interesting thought.

[acoleman43]

It's been incredibly busy so not much to update. I have started the solar panel installation. Because it's so HOT, I'm doing one each evening for now. In the morning the roof is too wet :(

I started by cutting out replicas and laying them out on the roof. I did measure and thought it would work, this confirmed my measurements. It will be tight, but it will work.

(ignore the mess at the black tank vent....a repair gone bad. Still need to smooth it out)







First 2 panels installed. A little tricky on a sloped roof.




More work done in other areas, but not enough to post about.

A couple things I found: The programmable relays of the Cerbo GX are nice. I have them both set to "temperature". You can specify the temperature the relay opens and closes.

Another busy week ahead of business travels and work. More updates as they come...

[acoleman43]

Edit: Whoever invented Alpha Self-Leveling Lap Sealant has a special place in .....well.....nevermind. It likes to stick to anything except where you want it......shirt, pants, shoes, arms hair,....

And it does not self-level. Instead, it sticks to itself until you come within 6", then it "self-levels" on any part of you that it wants to.

[bellis]

A couple things I found: The programmable relays of the Cerbo GX are nice. I have them both set to "temperature". You can specify the temperature the relay opens and closes.

More info please. What are you doing with that relay in between temperatures?

[acoleman43]

More info please. What are you doing with that relay in between temperatures?

I'm not sure how much information you want.....so.....

On the back of the Cerbo you can connect a bunch of accessories. To use the relays to activate or inactivate something based on temperature, you must first have at least 1 temp sensor connected to the Cerbo. You can have up to 4 temp sensors.

You also need to connect the device you want the relay to control to relay 1 or relay 2 (or both in the case of a generator start function).

Below is the cerbo and where these are located.




If you look at the back, you can see where the actual connections are at.



To install temp sensor(s) red (DC+) is on top and black (DC-) is on bottom. Just stick the sensor anywhere. The other end looks like a battery terminal ring but doesn't need to be connected to a battery (but can if you would like...connect to DC- lug).





For my purpose of starting fans once a specific temperature is reached, then turn fans off once temp reaches a lower point, you only need to use the NO and Com. You connect the power source (DC +) to the COM and the DC+ to the device in the NO. This is the case for both relay 1 and relay 2 if you want to use both.

[acoleman43]

After you've done the physical connections, you need to set up the Cerbo. You do this through the user interface. I have a GX Touch for this.

FIrst you have to activate the temp sensor. To do this you go into the Cerbo, settings, I/O, Analog Inputs, then active the specific Temp input(s).








Now you go back to settings and find Relay. Change the specific relay (1 or 2 or both) to "Temperature". Now go into Temperature control rules.



Here you can program the conditions for each relay. For example you can make use Condition 1 for relay 1. You can make Relay 1 active when the temp reaches 40 Celsius, then deactivate when temperature reaches 35 Celsius. THis will turn on fans at 40 degrees Celsius and trun fans back off once the temperature drops to 35 degrees Celsius. If you use both relays you can program Condition 2 for relay 2.



I hope this makes sense and answers your questions.

Based on the Temperatures I've been seeing recently, fans are a must to circulate air.