Announcement

**d2reid** · 06-11-2023, 10:13 AM

Sorry, can't help with the voltage measurement, but I do have history with water in the diesel. I have owned 3 Chevy's and my current F450. The first two Chevy's had major fuel injector issues. The first one was apparent fuel injector harness issues. After getting it repaired twice and being notified that I needed $8k in fuel injector replacement I traded. The second one had fuel injector issues that I attribute to the auxiliary fuel tank I installed, it did not have proper contaminant protection. Having learned some stuff I put a FAAS fuel pump on the third one. AirDog also make a good fuel pump/separator. After turbo-charger issues the truck was having power problems so I traded it for the F450. I also used Optilube additive.

This is the part where Chevy bashers comment, but I loved my Chevy's and still do. But I am told Ford, Chevy, and Cummins all use the CP4 fuel injector, so can't see where brand makes a difference.

So after all that effort and expense I have re-evaluated the risk. I use my truck hard, at some point it's going to fail. Probably sooner than what other's would consider normal. So I plan on that.

The only fuel injector PM that I perform is having both fuel filters replaced each time I have the oil changed. Doing this, I hope to bypass the need to know what the voltage is in the sensor, it should never get enough water in it to matter. Of course one bad fuel fill could destroy that theory. Having a $500 service charge, oil change and fuel filters, is no fun. But maybe, just maybe, I might get 200k out of the F450 before I ruin it.

**Jlawles2** · 06-11-2023, 12:05 PM

howson Howard, if you know where the sensor it, pull it and do the lab experiment of playing with the float to see what it is a min and max (where it triggers the light).

As for fuel additives, that's like talking religion, politics, oil, and grease all in 1 discussion. https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/art...dditives-r366/ number 7 on the list was the go to for a long time.

GM swapped from the CP4 to a CP4.2 which has a better tolerance to the more modern fuels.

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diese...4-2-fuel-pump/

**acoleman43** · 06-11-2023, 02:47 PM

In the 2017 model year Duramax equipped trucks, GM replaced the Bosch CP4 with the Denso HP4 fuel pump. They have not gone back to Bosch.

In 2021 Ram recalled all 2019 and 2020 Cummins equipped trucks and replaced the CP4.2 with a CP3. The 2021 and up have the CP3.

From what I understand the powerstroke has not had the number of issues with the CP4 as Cummins and Duramax engines have had. Ford claims the powerstroke is designed different and shouldn't have these issue. But I haven't; seen actual data on that. And I'm skeptical this is true.

I have a powerstroke and this is always in the back of my mind. I can't afford a $10K-$12K repair bill. I use fuel additive, which contains additional lubricants, to every tank of fuel. I also use a fuel system/injector cleaner every 5,000 miles. I change oil every 5,000 miles and change both fuel filters every 10,000 miles. It isn't cheap....my wife reminds me of this each time the $150 fuel filter is seen.

I believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of reliability??? Well, I am hoping this will help long term.

As for additives, I think anything that contains some good lubrication is good. From what I understand the fuel in the US doesn't have the lubricative properties the CP4 was designed for (like in Europe). IF this is the case, adding a lubricating additive seems logical.

If I get a chance, I'll get Forscan going and look at it.

**howson** · 06-11-2023, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

Howard, if you know where the sensor it, pull it and do the lab experiment of playing with the float to see what it is a min and max (where it triggers the light).

If I get bored and can't gather the data any other way, I'll go get one off a wrecked SuperDuty at a junk yard, the connector with some of the wiring, and even the bottom section of the fuel filter bowl to replicate (as much as possible) what's on my truck so I can experiment at will.

**Jlawles2** · 06-11-2023, 07:40 PM

Do you know if it's a floating slider or some other type of sensor?

edit
https://www.ebay.com/itm/19525924738...id=23025928241
It appears to be some type of resistive tester. This scares me as condensate may or may not contain enough electric potential for the sensor to trip.
If you do get the parts and do the testing, just for giggles try with salt water at the end and see if it changes the results.

**Beachcamper** · 06-11-2023, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post

In the 2017 model year Duramax equipped trucks, GM replaced the Bosch CP4 with the Denso HP4 fuel pump. They have not gone back to Bosch.

In 2021 Ram recalled all 2019 and 2020 Cummins equipped trucks and replaced the CP4.2 with a CP3. The 2021 and up have the CP3.

From what I understand the powerstroke has not had the number of issues with the CP4 as Cummins and Duramax engines have had. Ford claims the powerstroke is designed different and shouldn't have these issue. But I haven't; seen actual data on that. And I'm skeptical this is true.

I have a powerstroke and this is always in the back of my mind. I can't afford a $10K-$12K repair bill. I use fuel additive, which contains additional lubricants, to every tank of fuel. I also use a fuel system/injector cleaner every 5,000 miles. I change oil every 5,000 miles and change both fuel filters every 10,000 miles. It isn't cheap....my wife reminds me of this each time the $150 fuel filter is seen.

I believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of reliability??? Well, I am hoping this will help long term.

As for additives, I think anything that contains some good lubrication is good. From what I understand the fuel in the US doesn't have the lubricative properties the CP4 was designed for (like in Europe). IF this is the case, adding a lubricating additive seems logical.

If I get a chance, I'll get Forscan going and look at it.

I too worry about this especially with all the traveling we do and are subject to out of the way gas stops. My 2018 F350 just turned 100,100 miles this week and I am crossing my fingers can get 100k more without spending an extra $12k. I do same as you, replace both engine and rail mount fuel filters every other oil change and I change oil as per severe schedule as I am mostly towing. Every 5,000 miles and add power service (diesel clean) to fill ups. I actually carry a couple of fuel filters with me and pay for labor. It might all be a waste of money but makes me feel better…As soon as I get done with towing this large of a rig, will be trading in this truck for a gasser.

**TucsonJim** · 06-11-2023, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Beachcamper View Post

I too worry about this especially with all the traveling we do and are subject to out of the way gas stops. My 2018 F350 just turned 100,100 miles this week and I am crossing my fingers can get 100k more without spending an extra $12k. I do same as you, replace both engine and rail mount fuel filters every other oil change and I change oil as per severe schedule as I am mostly towing. Every 5,000 miles and add power service (diesel clean) to fill ups. I actually carry a couple of fuel filters with me and pay for labor. It might all be a waste of money but makes me feel better…As soon as I get done with towing this large of a rig, will be trading in this truck for a gasser.

Vivian - Have you looked into a CP4 disaster prevention kit? I just had one installed this week on my '16 6.7 Power Stroke with 83K miles. . If my CP4 fails, the expense will be limited to a new pump. Everything else is protected. The on I purchased from S&S retails for $400 plus labor. Or you can install it yourself in about four hours.

Jim

**Beachcamper** · 06-12-2023, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

Vivian - Have you looked into a CP4 disaster prevention kit? I just had one installed this week on my '16 6.7 Power Stroke with 83K miles. . If my CP4 fails, the expense will be limited to a new pump. Everything else is protected. The on I purchased from S&S retails for $400 plus labor. Or you can install it yourself in about four hours.

Jim

Jim, thank you I will look into this.

**howson** · 06-12-2023, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

It appears to be some type of resistive tester.

Yes, that is the sensor (I think), Joseph. I'm failing to find any other specific information related to it. Based on generic information related to OBD failure codes when there's water sensed the voltage output may go down.

**Scott'n'Wendy** · 06-12-2023, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by d2reid View Post

But I am told Ford, Chevy, and Cummins all use the CP4 fuel injector, so can't see where brand makes a difference.

Dodge is replacing CP4's under warranty...I think it's the 2019-2021?, Not sure if Chevy/GMC is. Ford is the only one still installing in new trucks.
If a person is buying a new Ford, I wonder if the dealer would install a disaster kit prior to pick-up?
For $400, it would be on my short list to buy for my Ford TV. While I'm sure there are lots of high mileage CP4 equipped trucks out there, the thought I could be triggering a $12k bill with a fill up at a station that has some water in the fuel......

It would be on my mind every time I filled up.

**familytruckster4** · 06-12-2023, 07:13 AM

High pressure fuel systems on light diesels and erratic fuel quality is whey I walked away from light duty diesel trucks. I got tired of being a Duramax beta tester.
My last 2 3500HD trucks were ordered with the 6.6 liter. gas engine.

**acoleman43** · 06-12-2023, 09:20 AM

A question about disaster prevention kits (which I have considered as well): Does it void your engine warranty? If it does, it's probably a good idea to hold off until the engine is out of warranty (100,000 miles) to install it.

**TucsonJim** · 06-12-2023, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post

A question about disaster prevention kits (which I have considered as well): Does it void your engine warranty? If it does, it's probably a good idea to hold off until the engine is out of warranty (100,000 miles) to install it.

That's a great question. I'm not at 100K miles yet, but my warranty is expired due to being past the five year period.

Question: So if you have water in fuel that takes out your CP4 or other fuel components, what will the warranty cover? Answer: Nothing. Ford will tack this one up to contaminated fuel which they do not cover in their warranty. In this case, you would want to submit an insurance claim to pay for the damages. The insurance company will probably take a sample of your fuel to file a claim against fuel company. Make sure you always get a receipt for your fuel purchases.

Question: Will a disaster prevention kit void the warrant? Answer: "The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits product manufacturers from conditioning consumer warranties on the use of any original equipment part or service. Furthermore, a manufacturer can only deny warranty coverage if it can demonstrate that a non-original equipment part or related service caused a defect to occur in the original product."

I had a 2013 6.7 Power Stroke that was damaged by contaminated fuel while under warranty. It was not covered by warranty. Insurance paid the $11,000 repair bill minus the deductible. The cab of the truck had to be removed and the pump, injectors, fuel lines, etc. all had to be replaced. If the pump fails with the disaster prevention kit installed, the repair is pretty simple. Replace the pump and the fuel filter. Flush out the line between the filter and the pump. Done. No cab removal, etc.

Jim

**acoleman43** · 06-12-2023, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

That's a great question. I'm not at 100K miles yet, but my warranty is expired due to being past the five year period.

Question: So if you have water in fuel that takes out your CP4 or other fuel components, what will the warranty cover? Answer: Nothing. Ford will tack this one up to contaminated fuel which they do not cover in their warranty. In this case, you would want to submit an insurance claim to pay for the damages. The insurance company will probably take a sample of your fuel to file a claim against fuel company. Make sure you always get a receipt for your fuel purchases.

Question: Will a disaster prevention kit void the warrant? Answer: "The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits product manufacturers from conditioning consumer warranties on the use of any original equipment part or service. Furthermore, a manufacturer can only deny warranty coverage if it can demonstrate that a non-original equipment part or related service caused a defect to occur in the original product."

I had a 2013 6.7 Power Stroke that was damaged by contaminated fuel while under warranty. It was not covered by warranty. Insurance paid the $11,000 repair bill minus the deductible. The cab of the truck had to be removed and the pump, injectors, fuel lines, etc. all had to be replaced. If the pump fails with the disaster prevention kit installed, the repair is pretty simple. Replace the pump and the fuel filter. Flush out the line between the filter and the pump. Done. No cab removal, etc.

Jim

Good points. But I'm still nervous about doing it lol.

Thanks for the reply. Defiantly something to think about.

Announcement

Water in Fuel ('17 Ford Superduty)

Water in Fuel ('17 Ford Superduty)

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment