Major Nautilus leak - I've been dreading this

[bogen2]

I have the Nautilus P1 panel in my rig and I've been watching it regularly expecting the worst after reading so many reports of problems. Well, it finally happened. I was dewinterizing and all was well when I connected my city water. But when I reset the controls to siphon my bleach mixture to the tank, there was water everywhere behind the panel. One of the fittings from the Blue valve to the fresh water tank has become disconnected somehow.



I don't know how this might have happened - maybe vibration or else the water pressure blew it out. And after inspecting all of the connections, I found another one on the Black valve that the elbow if about halfway out of the fitting.

Anyone have suggestions on how to fix this? Other than ripping it all out and rebuilding it from scratch

[Cate&Rob]

bogen2
Hi Bob & Val

The black plastic part is supposed to be on the hose side of the large flange on the white plastic fitting. The usual cause for this is freezing expansion of water inside the fitting. See the attached picture for further details. In the picture, the brass part is your white part, the outer white part is your black part and the rubber cone seal goes on the short end of the brass part.

There is no good way to repair this fitting, but it is relatively easy to replace. You will need a new fitting, Pex clamp rings and a Pex tool. All should be available at Home Depot or similar.

Rob

[Yoda]

Home Depot will have the 90 degree fitting you need in their brass fitting section. It will look something like Rob posted but be a 90 configuration. I had the same fitting come apart. The had part will be cutting the band on the blue hose. I would get the fitting out and take it with you to match up. While you at HD pick up a few spares. Also get a pex rated clamp to replace the one you will need to cut off.

[Cate&Rob]

bogen2

In your picture, it looks like the broken fitting goes into a short piece of soft hose and then into another fitting. The "soft hose" is not a proper fit to the Pex fittings, so if this is the case, I would suggest going to the next connection away and replacing that soft hose with a new piece of proper Pex pipe/tubing. Attached is something that I put together a while ago that describes the parts and the tools that you will need. All good to have with you for future repairs . . . which will happen with the soft hose connections. For removing the old Pex rings, I like to use a small pair of "end cutters" to unwrap the clamp. A small pair of side cutters will work too.

If you post a wider picture of the plumbing, we might be able to give additional advice on the best way to accomplish this repair.

Rob

[Yoda]

bogen2

In your picture, it looks like the broken fitting goes into a short piece of soft hose and then into another fitting. The "soft hose" is not a proper fit to the Pex fittings, so if this is the case, I would suggest going to the next connection away and replacing that soft hose with a new piece of proper Pex pipe/tubing. Attached is something that I put together a while ago that describes the parts and the tools that you will need. All good to have with you for future repairs . . . which will happen with the soft hose connections. For removing the old Pex rings, I like to use a small pair of "end cutters" to unwrap the clamp. A small pair of side cutters will work too.

If you post a wider picture of the plumbing, we might be able to give additional advice on the best way to accomplish this repair.

Rob

bogen2

Rob is very correct and caught something I did not see. (I hate it when you do that Rob ) Grand design has used 2 90 degree fittings to go somewhere. The first black 90 on the valve appears to be OK the second one separated (internal locking collar failed) I have a spare brass one in my trailer and I will pull the part number if I get a chance today. The blue hose it connects too is also very prone to failure as Rob has mentioned, especially at the clamps.

Let us know how the repair goes.

[bogen2]

bogen2
In your picture, it looks like the broken fitting goes into a short piece of soft hose and then into another fitting. The "soft hose" is not a proper fit to the Pex fittings, so if this is the case, I would suggest going to the next connection away and replacing that soft hose with a new piece of proper Pex pipe/tubing. Attached is something that I put together a while ago that describes the parts and the tools that you will need. All good to have with you for future repairs . . . which will happen with the soft hose connections. For removing the old Pex rings, I like to use a small pair of "end cutters" to unwrap the clamp. A small pair of side cutters will work too.

If you post a wider picture of the plumbing, we might be able to give additional advice on the best way to accomplish this repair.

Rob

What a mess this plumbing design is! I was hoping to just replace the little cone seal, but I assume from the replies that the fitting has to be replaced. I have tried opening a pex clamp in my garage on a test piece and I struggled. I don't know how its going to go in that rat's nest when I'm trying not to disturb all the rest of the connections, so any other tips are welcome. I'll have to try to find a small pair of end cutters as suggested. Here is a wide shot of what I have to work with.



The failed fitting on the blue valve is connected with those short soft hose pieces to the bottom of the black valve, which has its fitting pushed half way out. The tee between them has another short (12") piece of soft hose that connects to a tee in the pex line between the green valve (sheesh!) and the fresh water tank.



So now I'm thinking I should replace everything from the pex line to the two valves. Then i only have to undo one clamp on the pex tee and remove the whole "T" soft hose assembly and build an replacement in my shop. How bendable is pex? That 12" piece will need to bend about 45 degrees. Will that put tension on the ends when its bent?

Can I unscrew the "good" fittings if needed, or does disturbing them mean I have to replace the fitting?

Is this what I'm looking for?
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/sha...bow/1001012840

Thanks for all the help!

[Cate&Rob]

[QUOTE=bogen2;n18816]
What a mess this plumbing design is!
[QUOTE]

WOW! We have always known that the Nautilus panel was far more complex to plumb than the previous Kantleak version . . . but this is the most "compressed" version that I have seen. Earlier Nautilus plumbing was spread out more, so, at least you could get at the individual leakers. Using soft hose for a short straight line . . . just makes no sense!

I would go with your plan to "replace everything from the pex line to the two valves". Pex pipe does not like short tight bends (which is why Grand Design is using so much of the soft hose on this tightly plumbed panel).

When I replaced all the soft hose in my Reflection with Pex pipe, I ended up using a lot of elbows to get (almost) straight runs for the Pex tubing. I was prepared for this to create increased flow restriction to the various faucets . . . but, there is hardly any noticeable difference. My "theory" on this is that the soft hose collapses (particularly the hot water ones) on even gentle bends and creates just as much flow restriction as multiple Pex elbows.

See attached pictures of my panel, before and after the change to all Pex pipe and a lot more elbows . . . and, I thought that plumbing was complex !

Rob

[ThePowells]

I have replaced all but one piece of the soft line in ours, but I can't match what Rob has done. I used some of the 90 degree curved hose supports and the rest in either 90 degree fittings, or a longer hose to allow the bend. I found that using Will sheet metal shears to weaken the clamp then a pair of vise grips to twist the clamp was the easiest thing I found. Also, check the ratings on any clamps that you want to use if not Sharkbite clamps. I even had some bad ones from the Apollo brand with high reviews.

[JBill9694]

"

I don't know how its going to go in that rat's nest when I'm trying not to disturb all the rest of the connections, so any other tips are welcome." I had an auto-mechanic friend tell me one time that it is better to go ahead and remove everything that is in your way than to try to fight around it.

"Can I unscrew the "good" fittings if needed, or does disturbing them mean I have to replace the fitting?" I would say that the plastic fittinngs can be reused but you might want to consider replacing any rubber cones. Then again, since you've gone this far you might want to consider rebuilding the system with brass fittings.

Something thing no one has mentioned, maybe because it is obvious, is to map out and lable everything before you start your demolition. I use to get paid good money for statng the obious, so I don't mind doing it here.

[bogen2]

After reviewing the Nautilus P1 drawings saved in this forum, they show that there are 2 lines to the FW tank - one for filling and another to feed the pump. But I only see one hose on mine that appears to be both the fill and suction line. Am I missing something?

[Cate&Rob]

After reviewing the Nautilus P1 drawings saved in this forum, they show that there are 2 lines to the FW tank - one for filling and another to feed the pump. But I only see one hose on mine that appears to be both the fill and suction line. Am I missing something?

There is (usually) only one waterline from the valve panel to the water tank. This line is used for both filling and drawing out water . . . depending on how the valves are set.

Rob

[Cate&Rob]

"Can I unscrew the "good" fittings if needed, or does disturbing them mean I have to replace the fitting?"

The threaded fitting with the cone washer inside, can be disconnected and reconnected. If the cone washer looks damaged at all, just replace it with one from a new fitting. It is difficult to find replacement cone washers by themselves.

Rob

[bogen2]

OK, I think I'm going to take the plunge and rebuild the whole system, based on ideas found here and "elsewhere". I think the 5 valve "H" control system will work best as described elsewhere, with 3 more valves at the water heater for a bypass. I think I'll also add a pressure gauge to monitor system pressure and a motorized ball valve to cut off the city water supply when I'm away (as Rob has done).

I'm starting to plan my parts list. I've noticed quite a range in prices for brass valves and fittings. I priced out all of the various parts I need through the Grainger website, which has brands Fairview and Zurn. Then I priced them at Canadian Tire, which has the Waterline brand. The brass fittings (elbow, coupler and tees) at Canadian Tire were only about $1 apiece whereas at Grainger they are $3-5 each. Is there any benefit to buying the "brand" names or is any brass fitting going to meet my needs. Also, any differences in the brand of pex pipe?

I think I'll connect the motorized ball valve to the water heater as Rob has done. I've forgotten to turn off the water supple many times, so this should help,.

Also any advise on a pressure gauge? Where to mount, etc?

[Cate&Rob]

bogen2
Hi Bob,

In this "virtual world" that we live in, I did not know (or if I did, I forgot) that you are in Canada . . . until, I got to the "Canadian Tire" part . Our American friends are going to wonder why you are buying plumbing parts at a tire store. . .but, that is a whole longer story.

I found Lowe's to have the best selection of fittings, although Home Depot has ramped up their selection as well. The Canadian Tire near me is hit-and-miss on what they have in the plumbing parts department. I suspect that any of the brass fittings come from the same (off shore) manufacturer and get marketed under different names. Go with the least expensive. I got my pressure gauge at Princess Auto (although, I have seen the same gauge at CTC) and mounted it adjacent to the water control valve panel. See attached.

Rob

[gbkims]

Also, any differences in the brand of pex pipe?

Uponor PEX was mentioned by CloseToRetirement as being more flexible in his plumbing rebuild.
https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...nt?view=thread