Suspension Inspection - Six Years/25,000+ Miles

[Yoda]

Yoda Hi Keith

The critical "assembly condition" is that the nut be torqued against the shoulder of the bolt . . . not the hanger. LCI accomplishes this by allowing the hanger to bend in from its free inside width of 2". The LCI hanger material is less than 1/4". Attached is a drawing that I made of a Correct Track LCI hanger and a picture of the clearance left after the nut is torqued against the shoulder. I also tried shim washers, but because the LCI hanger sides bend in, they are no longer parallel to each other, I was worried that I would create a stack up that prevented the nut from reaching the shoulder.

It is quite likely that your shorter Dexter hangers are a tighter tolerance to the 1.75" bushing length and spring width. And perhaps your hanger are .25" thick ??

Rob

[ATTACH]n103124[/ATTACH]

Jlawles2 StephenO

Stephen you are correct the frame is Lippert, and depending on the year and unit it could be Lipperts springs and axles, or later Dexter.

Rob - just so you know you made me go out in the cold and crawl through the snow to get under my rig. What I found is interesting. I do have the correct length bolts for the spring hangers and Ez-Flex. I confirmed that with MoRyde. I found I do have a gap as you show.


Drivers side rear spring hanger. Gap is a fat 1/8" However spring width is shy about 1/16 from being a full 1.75" wide.


Spring hanger is 2" wide inside at top and 1.75" wide (compressed) at the spring connection. I am pretty sure the nut is against the bolt flange and given the varying thickness give the slop gap is created.

As I am replacing the springs I should have the opportunity to fine tune this gap using some type of shims an or even o-rings against the bushing to maintain a quasi grease seal that will not interfere with the nut to bolt face contact. I have a selection of nitrile ones that might work - for a while.

Hopefully I have not side tracked the original intent of this thread, but if I am rebuilding I want to do it right.

Keith

[StephenO]

It is quite likely that your shorter Dexter hangers are a tighter tolerance to the 1.75" bushing length and spring width. And perhaps your hanger are .25" thick ??

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought on our trailers, that the frames were all made by LCI, and that included the hangers. Where Dexter could come into play is at the axle and springs. I could be wrong though, so I thought I would ask. . I am fairly certain though all my hangers were stamped with 'LCI'

Yoda Perhaps use the parts lookup page to get the specs on the OEM shoulder bolts? Using that page for my Imagine, it shows 2.32" for the length of the bolt, which aligns with your measurements above. Just a thought.

https://www.granddesignrv.com/owner-...s/detail/39464

[Jlawles2]

Yoda Keith, If the inside of the hanger is 2" as stated by rob, then the bolt you are showing is short. I would not think you want to put the hanger into bending when tightening the nut.

Now they may have that much play in the hanger to minimize harmonic fatigue by allowing the spring to "float" between the hangers minimizing side loading during normal travel.

If you are wishing to retain the grease, how about a soft rubber washer vs hard metal? That allows for some forgiveness, even foam may be acceptable.

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda Hi Keith

The critical "assembly condition" is that the nut be torqued against the shoulder of the bolt . . . not the hanger. LCI accomplishes this by allowing the hanger to bend in from its free inside width of 2". The LCI hanger material is less than 1/4". Attached is a drawing that I made of a Correct Track LCI hanger and a picture of the clearance left after the nut is torqued against the shoulder. I also tried shim washers, but because the LCI hanger sides bend in, they are no longer parallel to each other, I was worried that I would create a stack up that prevented the nut from reaching the shoulder.

It is quite likely that your shorter Dexter hangers are a tighter tolerance to the 1.75" bushing length and spring width. And perhaps your hanger are .25" thick ??

Rob

2015 Reflection Spring Hanger.pdf

[Yoda]

I have always wondered what “excessive” is . . . when the 1 3/4” long bushing is placed in a 2” wide hanger by design. .

I also wonder if the bushing wear that I have seen is made worse by the tall “Correct Track” hangers that I have. This does not seem to translate into uneven tire wear and I do have the V Clip braces to reinforce the hangers.

Rob

Rob - now you have me curious as to the hanger thickness. If it is 1/4" then the wet bolts I have will fit exactly with little no slop with the 1.75" springs. They have an inside dimension of 2.25" bolt inside face to lock nut inside face. kernel section is 1/4". With bushing being 1.75" that leaves 1/4" for the pin to extend through the hanger to the face. There might be 1/16" or less slop. I am attaching photos.

Question - would using shims on each side of the spring for a snug fit in the hanger be beneficial? Might hold and distribute the grease better. As the bolt is 1/2"dia finding shins should not be a problem - in fact I may have them in my stock of tractor supplies. otherwise I know Tractor Supply carry's them.





Thoughts
Keith

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I have always wondered what “excessive” is . . .

Yes, very subjective

[Cate&Rob]

just check for excessive movement at the bolts and check hangers.

I have always wondered what “excessive” is . . . when the 1 3/4” long bushing is placed in a 2” wide hanger by design. .

I also wonder if the bushing wear that I have seen is made worse by the tall “Correct Track” hangers that I have. This does not seem to translate into uneven tire wear and I do have the V Clip braces to reinforce the hangers.

Rob

[Scott'n'Wendy]

As ridiculous as “tear down and inspect every year” sounds . . . I have disassembled my suspension at least 5 times in the 8 years we have owned this rig.

I don't find that surprising at all...
All the while the engineer in you screaming "just how cheaply can a suspension be made!!!"

Did you have any issue with the knurl opening up the hanger bolt hole from removing and inserting new bolts?

Just FYI, and not disagreeing with you, just a personal story, Dexter does not, or did not at the time suggest the same as Lippert re: the tear down. After my ez lube kit had been installed for a while, my memory thinks 7 years but maybe 5....I called Dexter about replacement of the wet bolt equalizers etc. The person I talked to said there is no replacement time/miles recommendation, the equalizer will not wear out, just grease it. As for suspension inspection, just check for excessive movement at the bolts and check hangers. I took one shackle/spring pair out and the bushings looked good to me, so for the rest I just exercised the suspension and checked for movement. All seemed good. When I traded that trailer in on the 303 in 2020, it was still riding on the 2011 bushings.

[Guest]

Freedom from liability. A poorly designed system that is torn down annually is less likely to fail. Don't tear it down before each season and the owner owns it.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

As ridiculous as “tear down and inspect every year” sounds . . . I have disassembled my suspension at least 5 times in the 8 years we have owned this rig. For a lot of different reasons of my own doing. Changing springs, changing equalizers, changing bushings . . . and so on. At every teardown the bushings were trashed. Different spring manufacturers, OE plastic bushings, Never Fail plastic bushings, bronze bushings. Didn’t matter. Sometimes only 5000 miles between tear downs. The problem is the incredibly sloppy fit of trailer suspension components. I can see how an LCI engineer would advise that their suspension system has to be rebuilt every year.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

There is a reason for the phrase "Ignorance is bliss"

Speaking of Rally's...We are going to be at the Quartzsite rally in 6 weeks or so.

Let's just hope that we have warmer temperatures than we had last year. Several mornings were in the mid-20s.

Yoda I was looking for info on Dexter maintenance, and came across their "Light Duty, 600 to 8K complete service manual". I'll add a link below. They have a maintenance table that actually makes sense. One of the highlights is that they actually say to grease the wet bolts every 3,000 miles (or three months).



https://www.dexteraxle.com/user_area...ice_manual.pdf

Jim

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I put over 30000 mines on my old trailer and did non of this - just drove. Maybe not knowing is a good thing.

Keith

There is a reason for the phrase "Ignorance is bliss"

Speaking of Rally's...We are going to be at the Quartzsite rally in 6 weeks or so.

[Yoda]

Yoda - Just remember that LCI wants you to inspect your suspension annually.

In their master manual, the state the following "Inspect all components of the suspension system annually or every 36,000 miles, whichever comes first."

Then they go on to state that part of this maintenance includes a complete suspension tear down and inspection of bushings, equalizer, etc.

See page 25 of the attached manual.
https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...0001573-02.pdf

I've never known anyone to comply with this edict, and I think the folks who wrote this have no clue about real life maintenance, or they just wrote it to cover themselves.

Jim

LOL Jim
Someone wrote that to provide back end $$$$$$$ for maintenance. Good thing I have Dexter everything. But even Dexter is quiet on a maintenance schedule except for annual bearing repack maintenance. I need to dig into the EZ-Flex manual and spring resources to see what they have. I would guess every year visually inspect and grease, and maybe a 25K tear down. I wonder if You-Tube has some inspection tips that might work like raising a tire and tugging on it for bearing end play. I put over 30000 mines on my old trailer and did non of this - just drove. Maybe not knowing is a good thing. But it was built like a tank, except for the wood framing.

Will this be a topic at the national rally - maybe actually do a trailer?

Keith

[Guest]

Jim
The wet bolts in my MoRyde kit are clearly marked grade 5 (three hash marks on the head) the head is also stamped QP The Q could be for Q.S.N. INDUSTRIES, INC. but not sure. Neither the nut or bushings appear to have any identification marks. The nut is pinched at the top to make it a slightly deformed thread locking nut.

Keith

Keith,

Grade 5 will have a proof load of 85K psi, yield strength of 92K psi and tensile strength of 120k psi. The grade 5 is better for cyclic loading and will not be too brittle for the pounding it takes in our suspensions. Especially with the bushing being worn out. So this makes sense....thank you. Our rig is not stored near by.

I hope folks do not contemplate modifying this pin since this would change the design for its intended purpose. And in this case, winging it with assumptions could end badly.

Jim

[TucsonJim]

Yoda - Just remember that LCI wants you to inspect your suspension annually.

In their master manual, the state the following "Inspect all components of the suspension system annually or every 36,000 miles, whichever comes first."

Then they go on to state that part of this maintenance includes a complete suspension tear down and inspection of bushings, equalizer, etc.

See page 25 of the attached manual.
https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...0001573-02.pdf

I've never known anyone to comply with this edict, and I think the folks who wrote this have no clue about real life maintenance, or they just wrote it to cover themselves.

Jim