Reflection 220RK 6K Axle Upgrade Discussion - and help

[Yoda]

Straight edge between the opposing U-bolts or on one spring pack?

I put it across both U-bolts ( bottom) hanging over to the hub backing plate and towards the axle center. I think it was an 16" or 24" straight edge. If everything is good you should get constant decreasing measurements out from each U-bolt. You are measure the arch from the flats created by the u-bolts. In my case going towards the hub the distance increased slightly indicating the bend. You can see it in one of my photos. To the inside the measurements deceased as they should. You can do the same thing using a very tight string line connected to the brake backing plats directly below the axle tube. If you have it tight enough the U-bolts will not interfere. If not bent the distance from the string at the hub to the axle tube should be less that from the string to the axle tube at the u-bolts. There are also several u-tube videos. Some are more how not to

Hope this helps

[Jlawles2]

Howard posted about going to check out a surplus supply not far from GD. https://bontragers.com/rv-supplies-accessories/ looks like they have quite a few axles. Wonder what used ones are going for vs new.

[Yoda]

Howard posted about going to check out a surplus supply not far from GD. https://bontragers.com/rv-supplies-accessories/ looks like they have quite a few axles. Wonder what used ones are going for vs new.

I am sure they have good stuff (too bad the don't have an online listing), but I doubt they will have a 3.5" tube 6K axle of the proper dimensions. And unless I go there how would I know the axle is good.

I did have a setback on getting my axles ordered though, Had trouble getting in touch with my sales person. Ill call tomorrow and if necessary ask for a supervisor,

Thanks for the thought - Keith

[Yoda]

OK
Update. It appears while I can get the 3.5" tube, the 3.5" U bolt kit (part # 4200) and top plats will not work with 1.75" springs - requires 2" springs - which means the HD shackle kit I have wont work unless I get new wet bolts for the shackles. The stock hangers will work though.

Unless someone knows of a way to have the U-bolt top plate work I need to go back to 3" tube? I can get a HW 0,25" wall thickness 3" tube. My stock LW tube 3" tube has a wall thickness of 0.16" That might get me 15% strength increase, but my structural calculation days are a bit fuzzy.

Thoughts on this?

Edit - the 3.5" tube is back on the table. Dexter does make a tie plate for 1.75" springs with 3.5" u-bolts, Part number 012-084-04. The Dexter U-bolit I think I need is 011-065-01 9x16 x 18, 7.89" long. Now to see if I can find a kit.

Keith

I also got a great quote from springworks.com Anyone know anything about them. Only problem is it totally disassembled, so I would need to mount everything to the axle. However they can assemble, so I am getting a price for that. Thoughts?

[Yoda]

Well a new twist
In talking with another Dexter distributor yesterday he recommended giving Dexter warranty a call. He knew they may have more information than he did from his catalogs. He was right. I found out I have another option and that is a 3" Heavy wall tube 5/16 thick and that is what was recommended to me. The folks I am currently working with did not mention that option. I was given the number for a distribution plant (not a distributor) to order direct. I will call them this morning.

So to recap - the 6K Dexter axles come in three thicknesses, LW (light wall) 0.16 thick - what I have, MW (medium wall) 0.25 thick, and HW (heavy wall) 5/16" or 0.3125" thick. Connie in the warranty department when through how to order and recommended the springs I need to , which happen to match one that I was looking at.

Now going withe the 3" tube solves 90% of my goal. I need about 1/2" more lift. Dexter stressed how important it was for the trailer to be level in towing to reduce unequal axle loading. I also asked about my sumo springs and they did not see that as an issue or contributing factor. I can go back to a 5 leaf 3 K spring instead of the 6 leaf 3200-3500lb spring and add in a 1/2" - 3/4" shim/lift block. What do you folks think of lift blocks under 1"? I also plan to ask the plant if they have extra height spring seats. or can build the lift in there.
Now to make a phone call - OOPS need to charge my phone first

More later
Keith

[Jlawles2]

I dealt with Connie before on my warranty claim. She was great and had our warranty axles, springs and all hardware fabricated and shipped in under 24 hrs.

Incident happened Sunday AM, Called Dexter Monday AM, Axles shipped Tuesday, Arrived Thursday AM, and Installed Thursday PM. Home Friday PM.

Connie found the local installer and arranged payment. I helped to ensure we were on the road Friday to get home as the installer was working by himself.

[Yoda]

I dealt with Connie before on my warranty claim. She was great and had our warranty axles, springs and all hardware fabricated and shipped in under 24 hrs.

Incident happened Sunday AM, Called Dexter Monday AM, Axles shipped Tuesday, Arrived Thursday AM, and Installed Thursday PM. Home Friday PM.

Connie found the local installer and arranged payment. I helped to ensure we were on the road Friday to get home as the installer was working by himself.

That's good news
She said she could order what I have, but agreed it would not solve my issue and recommended upgrading, but she could not place the order. She also said to fill out a clam form. I did and got an almost immediate response (no) which I expected and agreed with but also got the plant phone number. Its refreshing to get customer service that actually helps.

Keith

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda

Lift blocks increase the leverage that the axles have on overslung springs that causes the forward axle to lift during braking. If you absolutely need to use these, keep them as short as possible.

Rob

[Yoda]

Now I am frustrated
I called the place warranty recommended in Missouri - its a customer service branch. I am now being told the 3" HW 5/16" tube is not available. and they assigned the order to the Colorado distributor I am having difficulty dealing with on confusing information. I even copied him the email form warranty citing the HW 5/16" tube being available, but he did not se that and said I was mistaken. So I had to forward it a second time with the information highlighted - no response back after sending that.

The second Colorado distributor is no help either. I guess they only want to deal with stock orders that have previously been used, No one seems to be able to pull up the part numbers Dexter lists in thier current catalogs either on tie plates or U-bolts. It appears they still use paper books. I also have contacted some sellers like Spring Works in CA and get a third set of information and they are dealing with the same Colorado distributors. The information I have from my local trailer place is different also showing no camber on the 3.5" tube which does not sound correct.

So Monday I am calling the Utah and Texas plants and hopefully find out whats going on and hopefully use a Texas or Utah distributor - save on sales tax. No Dexter distributors in NM per Dexters distributor page.

I also reached out again to another trailer axle dealer in NM to see if he could complete what he was putting together He was originally a Rockwell dealer before Dexter bought Rockwell out. He started, but never got back to me with anything final.

Or Does anyone have a name and phone number of someone at Dexter that really might be able to help. I'll reach out to GD customer service in Monday morning too. If I cant get the HW 3" I might as well do the 3.5" and pray I can get the correct spring tie plates for 1.75" spring width. I am not sure going to .25 wall thickness from .16 is that much of a benefit in a 3" tube.

UGGGGGGGgggggg.................................... ....!
Wish me luck Monday
Keith

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda

Axle camber . . . you bring up an interesting question. The original camber would (should?) be a based on wall thickness of the tube and weight carrying spec of the axle assembly. If you significantly increase the wall thickness of the axle tube, but keep the weight carrying requirement the same, less camber would be required . . . but, how much less?

Rob

[Yoda]

Yoda

Axle camber . . . you bring up an interesting question. The original camber would (should?) be a based on wall thickness of the tube and weight carrying spec of the axle assembly. If you significantly increase the wall thickness of the axle tube, but keep the weight carrying requirement the same, less camber would be required . . . but, how much less?

Rob

Yep that is the question the monkey on my back asked - how much camber is good enough . The axle is still rated 6K so the camber should match - correct? But who knows?
Now for a laugh - I used to be able to calculate camber to deal with dead load on long bridges for concrete placement (with computer help) - but do you think I could find something on axles tubes with two outboard point loads on the web - nope. Not that I would remember how to use it. if I did find it. Hopefully Monday will be a good day - time for a cold one.
More snow on the way Wednesday (6 to 10" total over 3 days, That means the ladder comes out for the trailer roof again - I cant win

Thanks Rob
Keith

[Jlawles2]

Yoda Keith, Case 9 http://www-classes.usc.edu/engr/ce/457/moment_table.pdf . Is this what you were looking for? Remember everything needs to be in INCHES for the deflection calc to work.

[Yoda]

Yoda Keith, Case 9 http://www-classes.usc.edu/engr/ce/457/moment_table.pdf . Is this what you were looking for? Remember everything needs to be in INCHES for the deflection calc to work.

LOL Now to try and find the tube property's ....My head is hurting already

Thanks

[Jlawles2]

Tube properties are the easy one.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...ta-d_1496.html (For Rob and our Northern friends).

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s...ions-d_43.html

Let me help with the relief of the headache. https://www2.engineering.com/calculators/beams.htm Looks like only 1 load not 2 still looking

[Yoda]

Tube properties are the easy one.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...ta-d_1496.html (For Rob and our Northern friends).

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s...ions-d_43.html

Let me help with the relief of the headache. https://www2.engineering.com/calculators/beams.htm Looks like only 1 load not 2 still looking

Thanks Joseph i

In case you board and wondering what my axle loading is, my loaded scale ticket from a few years back the axles had 7K overall loading over 2 axles, so 3500lb each. Water tank full, block/gray empty, fully loaded with food for camping. Weight was hooked up with truck off of scale, just trailer tires on. Stock axles are 4400lbs each.

Given the frame reinforcement and second spare (possibly adding 300 - 500lbs) I am guessing at 3.8 to 4K each axle now, maybe a bit less, but a fair number to use as on the Alaska trip on a few occasions I traveled with all 4 tanks (FW, 2 grays and black) at about 75% full. I would say 120 gallons total (1000lbs give or takes)

Hub Face is 86.5 and Spring Center is 68.5 so point load (spring center) is 9" in from hub face each side.

Keith