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**Ryan** · 07-14-2021, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by Villager View Post

.....

Again, I had zero experience with pulling rigs this size. The sway I mentioned in my original post was minor so that’s why I asked if it was normal. Thanks again for the info you provided.

Villager And I have NO idea if anything I said will make any difference. But it would be interesting to hear what you think after some changes in your loading and weight distribution. I'll be doing this same learning curve in a few more months!

**Ryan** · 07-14-2021, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

Those of you whom experience sway or any strange movements during traveling with partially full fresh water tanks should consider filling or emptying the tanks. Partially filled tanks slosh water which is the equivalent of someone in the camper running from side to side making sudden stops. I fill mine every time I travel just in case I need it on the road. If I use any, then I don't worry about refilling unless I experience issues. You may want to try pulling the unit with an empty tank or completely full tank to see how it affects the general trailering of the unit.

Jlawles2 Hum....that brings up an interesting question. I wonder if the tanks, particularly the fresh water tanks, are designed with baffles inside to prevent sloshing? I've never looked at one, and I highly doubt any of that "fancy" engineering has ever gone in to an RV fresh water tank.

**Jlawles2** · 07-14-2021, 04:38 AM

Ryan I think all RV tanks being molded plastic are just 6 sides (more or less). To make a baffled tank would be more complicated and expensive.

**TedS** · 07-14-2021, 05:47 AM

It can be done.

**Villager** · 07-14-2021, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

Those of you whom experience sway or any strange movements during traveling with partially full fresh water tanks should consider filling or emptying the tanks. Partially filled tanks slosh water which is the equivalent of someone in the camper running from side to side making sudden stops. I fill mine every time I travel just in case I need it on the road. If I use any, then I don't worry about refilling unless I experience issues. You may want to try pulling the unit with an empty tank or completely full tank to see how it affects the general trailering of the unit.

Thanks for your comments Jlawles2. I understand how water could slosh in a partially filled tank and cause trailering issues. All of my towing thus far has been with an empty fresh water tank, but since we plan to do some boondocking I will fill the fresh water tank completely when I hit the CAT scales again to see what affect the ~954 lbs of water in the tank behind the axles has on the pin weight. It’s a short low-speed drive from our storage place to the CAT scales so there should not be any issues with towing, but the exercise will provide good load distribution data for our next adventure.

**TedS** · 07-14-2021, 08:12 AM

Here is an interesting video showing how weight distribution affects sway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

**Beachcamper** · 07-14-2021, 08:14 AM

I use this program to calculate safety margins from weigh in sheets.

https://fifthwheelst.info/app/fifth-wheel-st/

Make sure to consult both GD and Lippert regarding traveling with full tanks. I was told by Lippert that it would cause frame damage due to water sloshing around even if full. GD also advised against it. I just fill at campground or near the campground and drive slowly to my spot when not on a FHU site.

**Yoda** · 07-14-2021, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Villager View Post

Towing newbie here would value feedback/opinions from this group on towing / pin weight on our new 320G TH after first trip of approx 1,000 miles. We have the 8,000 lb axel option so GVWR is 18,000. UVW: 13,342. CAT scale revealed camping-ready trailer weight of 15,120, 2500 lb / 16.5% pin weight w/ ~600 lb motorcycle in back, about 24 gallons / 150 lbs gas in back 30 gallon tank, zero fresh water and empty gray and black water tanks. Towed ok with Ram 3500 Laramie 4 x 4 diesel SRW short bed w/ Andersen Ultimate hitch w/ ball in lowest position and truck set at alternate trailer height, which is 1” lower. However, I did notice some very slight “fishtailing” when observing the very back of the rig in the mirrors at 65 MPH on the Interstate. Is this normal? I’ve never towed anything this long or heavy. Would more pin weight make it more stable? I assume yes. If I add water to the fresh tank behind the axles for boondocking my pin weight will drop. I could add water weight to the black and/or gray water tank in front of the axles to offset the fresh water weight weight, but I would prefer not to do that. We want to upgrade the king mattress so that will add some weight up front. Maybe a water bed like WileyKid suggests! I could add a 2nd battery in the generator compartment. I was even thinking I could add about 100 lbs of water weight in (2) 6 gallon jugs and put them under the bed up front. Any and all opinions welcome! Thank you.

Chuck
Please post the door sticker of your truck that shows the GVW,CCC and axle weights. Based on your numbers/pin weight and the picture of you hooked up you may well be overload on the truck as mentioned. Sorry to say that, but by your description (fish tailing) it sure acts the way. Also post the tire specifications of your rear truck tires, including load capacity. Also what pressure are you running in your truck tires.

Just trying to help. This way we will have all the numbers to work with.

**Villager** · 07-14-2021, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Beachcamper View Post

I use this program to calculate safety margins from weigh in sheets.

https://fifthwheelst.info/app/fifth-wheel-st/

Make sure to consult both GD and Lippert regarding traveling with full tanks. I was told by Lippert that it would cause frame damage due to water sloshing around even if full. GD also advised against it. I just fill at campground or near the campground and drive slowly to my spot when not on a FHU site.

Thanks Beachcamper for the app referral and the info on traveling with full tanks. Again, I am a newbie to this type of rig so this input is invaluable to me.

I spoke with both Lippert and GD today. Lippert stated in no uncertain terms to NOT travel with full tanks. Their input was to NOT have a fresh water tank more than 25% full when traveling and to dump grey and black tanks at the first opportunity after boondocking. They recommended exactly what Beachcamper said about filling the freshwater tank close to a boondocking site. GD initially said it was okay to travel with a full tank of fresh water because there are braces to support the weight of a full tank, but then they backtracked after I told them what Lippert recommended saying it would be better to stay on the safe side and fill the freshwater tank close to sites without FHUs. Sounds like best practice for traveling longer distances is to have tanks empty or mostly empty.

Thanks for everyone’s input on this topic!

**Beachcamper** · 07-14-2021, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Villager View Post

Thanks Beachcamper for the app referral and the info on traveling with full tanks. Again, I am a newbie to this type of rig so this input is invaluable to me.

I spoke with both Lippert and GD today. Lippert stated in no uncertain terms to NOT travel with full tanks. Their input was to NOT have a fresh water tank more than 25% full when traveling and to dump grey and black tanks at the first opportunity after boondocking. They recommended exactly what Beachcamper said about filling the freshwater tank close to a boondocking site. GD initially said it was okay to travel with a full tank of fresh water because there are braces to support the weight of a full tank, but then they backtracked after I told them what Lippert recommended saying it would be better to stay on the safe side and fill the freshwater tank close to sites without FHUs. Sounds like best practice for traveling longer distances is to have tanks empty or mostly empty.

Thanks for everyone’s input on this topic!

To me this was very disturbing to find out from both Lippert and GD because having a self contained unit is the reason I purchased an RV. Unfortunately, I did not know then what I know now. I did press Lippert on exact amounts of water to carry on board and still prevent frame and suspension failure. The amount was no more than 10 gallons for my tank capacity so 25% sounds right. So I now bring a 5 gallon folding container to siphon an additional 5 into freshwater tank when I stop at a Harvest Host or other overnight destination. That gives us enough for two navy showers and toilet flushing with a few gallons left over.

**Jlawles2** · 07-14-2021, 12:18 PM

Beachcamper That's a bit disturbing especially since I do not remember seeing it in the owners manual. Not to mention it's not always easy to find a place with potable water to fill the fresh water tank.

**Cate&Rob** · 07-14-2021, 12:52 PM

Towing with a full tank of fresh water has been discussed numerous times in different threads on this forum. Grand Design has recently implemented design changes to the water tank overflow to prevent a siphon action from draining a full tank while travelling. The door label on every trailer reminds owners to consider the weight of a full tank of water in staying under the GVWR for the trailer. Many regulars on this forum travel to drycamping locations with full tanks of water. I am not disputing what a Grand Design or LCI rep told you over the phone . . . but, why is this caution not included in any owners manual?

Rob

**Villager** · 07-14-2021, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Yoda View Post

Chuck
Please post the door sticker of your truck that shows the GVW,CCC and axle weights. Based on your numbers/pin weight and the picture of you hooked up you may well be overload on the truck as mentioned. Sorry to say that, but by your description (fish tailing) it sure acts the way. Also post the tire specifications of your rear truck tires, including load capacity. Also what pressure are you running in your truck tires.

Just trying to help. This way we will have all the numbers to work with.

Thanks for the offer to help Yoda. Based on my research and knowledge, the truck is not overloaded. Photos of truck and tire specifications requested are below. TV is a 2020 one-ton/3500 Ram diesel SRW short bed w/ air suspension. GVWR: 11,800, GAWR Front: 6,000, GAWR rear: 7,000, Tires: 3,640 @ 80 PSI cold (what I run in rear), Payload: 3,751. All 4 Cooper tires on rig also inflated to recommended 125 PSI cold. Comments/help welcome.

Attached Files

**Yoda** · 07-14-2021, 02:55 PM

Chuck - it's good to see the numbers and that your good - a lot better than most. I am a bit puzzled by the picture in you first post as it shows a good bit of squat. Usually in that situation things can get squirrely and the front steering axle gets unloaded, but your scale tickets say otherwise. That leave trailer loading, but your pin weight is good too.

BTW - I always travel with a full or near full tank of water. As my tank is over the axles it improves handling on my unit, and out west here - water is life. I have never had an issues with any of my trailers running with water in the tank.

All I can suggest is possibly bump you pin weight up say 250 to 500lbs and see if that helps. Start low and add. That's all I can think of. Also shift your garage weight as far forward as you can (heavy end forward)- every little bit helps.

Appreciate you posting the additional information. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will see something that will help.

Keith

On edit - adding a good rear HD sway bar should help. On Fords the only way to get it is to add the camper package. Helwig makes a good one. Might be worth looking into.

**Jlawles2** · 07-14-2021, 05:23 PM

Villager Chuck and Vicki, where is the ball in reference to the rear axle? Loosing 250 lb off the front is not a lot, but you might be able to turn the hitch around and move the ball forward pushing the weight back to the front.

I had this issue with my slider that the selling dealer of another unit set it up 1.5" behind the manual. It pulled just over 200 off the front axle. moving the hitch forward changed several things.

On the truck, either a sway bar or something like Timbren's in the rear. Do you have overload springs in the rear with stops?

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