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**Country Campers** · 05-29-2023, 06:58 PM

That is great news that you got them fixed up.

Brian

**NoPeeking** · 05-29-2023, 07:05 PM

Nice to hear about people helping people where 15 minutes doesn't count for time & materials. Thank you for sharing the fix... that's what makes this forum so beneficial.

Mike

**Cate&Rob** · 05-29-2023, 07:31 PM

Hi John,

Great write up . . . thanks for posting. Hearing the stories of dealer incompetence over-and-over-and-over-again is one of the most frustrating things about RV ownership.

Rob

**TucsonJim** · 05-29-2023, 07:57 PM

Great write up, but oh so maddening.

Just two weeks ago, I was at a campground in Utah when I was talking to another owner. His dealer told him he needed a new converter. I solved the problem in less than 30 seconds by turning the battery disconnect switch on....

Jim

**Scott'n'Wendy** · 05-29-2023, 09:47 PM

Glad you fixed them up John!
I've often thought a lot of dealership 'techs' would make good 'inverted underwater spoon benders'.....

There a lot of people on this forum that could out perform most, if not all dealer techs.....

**ncitro** · 05-30-2023, 01:25 AM

Jkwilson great ending but terrible story. I have a couple friends who live in southern Alabama (I am in Illinois) and they got a twenty year old motorhome to fulfill a dream of RVing. Neither is technically inclined at all, so I try to help then when I can, mostly over the phone stuff unless we are passing through or meet up in Florida. They took it to a dealer because they were having issues with their A/C unit. Dealer changed their batteries charged them over$1k and sent them on their way. Shortly after they called me saying they were having the same issues and did I have any ideas, they were supposed to be leaving in a trip. Five minutes of questions on the phone lead to discovering the system works fine on the generator but not on shore power and I condemned the transfer switch. Told them they may or may not have needed batteries, but that was not the problem they took it in for. They ordered a transfer switch and with a little encouragement and done video calls they were up and running and made their trip. Even got a refund and their original batteries back. The dealer would not hook them back up and we had to figure that out over video calls as well.

Terrible what is out there for dealer service, and how people get taken advantage of.

**Yoda** · 05-30-2023, 08:21 AM

Way to go.

If I may ask was the wiring color to the converter black for positive and white negative return, or the typical red/black battery wiring colors? I know the color switch can be a bit mind boggling if you don know or remember it. I assume the converter connections are clearly marked.

Now a question for the moderators. Has GD ever considered testing thier dealers, or creating a certified service program? My thought is the act a mistry shopers and tak a unit to a dealer with specific set up issues and see what a dealer does. Example blown inline fuse at water pump - do they replace fuse or pump?

Just a crazy thought.......I know....I know.....go back to my corner

**ncitro** · 05-30-2023, 08:58 AM

,Yoda I've never heard of anything like that, but they do have a whole program for training dealer techs that's very immersive and detailed. Some parts are done at the dealer with a trailer the Grand Design trainer brings out but the more advanced levels are done on site at Grand Designs facility.

I'd imagine the breakdown there is dealers not wanting to invest in the training (travel for the tech etc) or high turnover of techs. That's just a guess though.

**Jkwilson** · 05-30-2023, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by ncitro View Post

,Yoda I've never heard of anything like that, but they do have a whole program for training dealer techs that's very immersive and detailed. Some parts are done at the dealer with a trailer the Grand Design trainer brings out but the more advanced levels are done on site at Grand Designs facility.

I'd imagine the breakdown there is dealers not wanting to invest in the training (travel for the tech etc) or high turnover of techs. That's just a guess though.

I suspect turnover is an issue. There’s also the problem of the competent techs being busy with more complex repairs and troubleshooting leaving the simpler jobs to the less experienced workers.

There are a few consumer service industries where, because of economics and demographics, it’s not common for the service people to be users of the product they service. Without a lot of training, the average new worker in an RV service center doesn’t even understand how the power systems in an RV work. You see the same thing with pools. The minimum wage clerk at a pool store is very unlikely to have ever actually taken care of a pool themselves, but they are put in a position of advising hundreds of people on how to care for their pools.

The answer many of us here have chosen is to become educated ourselves to make up for the skill gap at dealers. Others don’t have the basic mechanical or electrical knowledge to get started, and this forums helps them overcome the lack of dealer support.

**acoleman43** · 05-30-2023, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Yoda View Post

Way to go.

If I may ask was the wiring color to the converter black for positive and white negative return, or the typical red/black battery wiring colors? I know the color switch can be a bit mind boggling if you don know or remember it. I assume the converter connections are clearly marked.

Now a question for the moderators. Has GD ever considered testing thier dealers, or creating a certified service program? My thought is the act a mistry shopers and tak a unit to a dealer with specific set up issues and see what a dealer does. Example blown inline fuse at water pump - do they replace fuse or pump?

Just a crazy thought.......I know....I know.....go back to my corner

That is a great question....mine had the white/black setup. Confused me at first. I suspect you are probably right about this one.....

**Jkwilson** · 05-30-2023, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post

That is a great question....mine had the white/black setup. Confused me at first. I suspect you are probably right about this one.....

This one is red and black. My guess is the installer adding the second battery got confused and wired the batteries in some totally non-functional configuration that worked from the converter only. Someone later working on it found a polarity issue and swapped the wires at the converter but didn’t replace the fuses.

I got a text this morning that he got up during the night and grabbed his flashlight as usual. Decided to try the lights in the bathroom and was “delighted” they worked.

**Scott'n'Wendy** · 05-30-2023, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Yoda View Post

If I may ask was the wiring color to the converter black for positive and white negative return, or the typical red/black battery wiring colors?

My 2021 RLS, on the converter, has white negative and black positive. Which is a complete fubar to the way it should be. RV code is...whatever they feel like it should be on any given day. I think factory RV 'electricians' must prove they are colour blind before getting the job.....

**Cate&Rob** · 05-30-2023, 05:11 PM

My Reflection has red from the battery +ve to the "battery switch" and then black to the panel. In what world is putting a red wire and a black wire on the same switch an OK thing to do ? . . . oh yeah, I forgot, this is the RVIA world. Those who have followed my posts for a while will know what I think of what we get for the RVIA Inspection fee attached to every RV sale.

BTW, the reason that red wire is off the terminal in the attached picture is that it is on its way to being on the same stud as the black wire. The factory battery switch does nothing on my RV. The added battery switch above the batteries does control things.

Rob

**Yoda** · 05-30-2023, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post

My 2021 RLS, on the converter, has white negative and black positive. Which is a complete fubar to the way it should be. RV code is...whatever they feel like it should be on any given day. I think factory RV 'electricians' must prove they are colour blind before getting the job.....

You would think that my friend.

I had to learn the hard way to use my meter. On my trailer from the battery to the master positive power in bar up front and to the disconnect switch are traditional red for positive and black for negative. Then from the disconnect switch to the master positive power bar is black for positive. White is used for negative return (to a bolt on the frame) below the master positive power bar. This is the bar that has all of the auto resetting breaker on it. Power continues to the distribution panel in the trailer with black as positive. Now from there solid white is usually negative return and black or white with a stripe is positive. However there are a few gremlins mixed in, so I try and double check. When I don't, the magic smoke escapes, or I find I don't have the correct spare fuse - Murphy is in charge of the oops supply department

The only wiring I find constant on color is the running, turn signals, and brake lights.

Now on the 120V AC side they follow convention. Black hot and white neutral and green (or bare copper) ground However the do have color romeo sheeting - I think there is a color code for where it goes. You will find the different color romex leaving the back of the distribution panel.

It amazing what you find if you dig deep enough. I would love to chat with thier wiring engineer at the rally. There hast to be some reason behind what they did. From what I have found so far I think Murphy wired mine on a Friday afternoon at 4:30 PM, or Monday morning after a party weekend at 7 AM.

Back to my corner

Keith

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