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Roof Gutter Inspection Results (It's Ugly)

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  • Roof Gutter Inspection Results (It's Ugly)

    Update: Don't miss the WARNING in post 9...you don't want to repeat the mistake I made.

    Watching an All About RV's video, Jared mentioned he replaced the OEM decorative cover on the gutter with a better version. The pertinent part of Jared's video starts at :48 and goes through about 2:02.



    "Good idea", I think to myself, so of course I ordered a big 'ol roll of the stuff.

    Before installing the new cover I decided to wash and wax the trailer and to my dismay the picture below shows what I found on the rear of the unit.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	water in them.JPG Views:	0 Size:	101.8 KB ID:	78490

    As you can see, those bulges were pockets of water.

    What I found when I started pulling apart the roof gutter was beyond alarming. The diagram below is an attempt to show the construction versus typing out a zillion words. The key takeaway: the only barrier to water finding the screws (and staples which are not shown) is that thin strip of cap sealant over top of the gutter.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	construction.JPG Views:	0 Size:	105.0 KB ID:	78493
    The coup de grace is the vinyl sticker installation. It was installed after the gutter so it was stuck to the bottom of the frame effectively sealing the bottom and trapping water that was behind the gutter rail.

    Many of the screws I removed from the gutter looked like this:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	wet screw.JPG Views:	0 Size:	56.9 KB ID:	78491


    As mentioned previously, there was even staples driven through the gutter into the TPO and wall. (WHY???)


    Click image for larger version  Name:	staples.JPG Views:	0 Size:	170.2 KB ID:	78492

    So what started as a simple replacement (the decorative cover on the gutter) turned into an all-day project.

    A quick summary:
    1) Take down the gutter (have only done the street side so far). It comes down in two pieces. Clean off the sealant and sticker residue (not fun).
    2) Take off two vinyl stickers (that were now destroyed). The rear one as shown previously above and the very front one that also had moisture behind it.
    3) Clean off the leftover vinyl sticker glue from the side wall of the camper. (Not fun.)
    4) Clean the overlapping roof material of leftover sealant and gunk. (Not hard but tedious.)
    5) Apply a single continuous strip of butyl tape the length of the camper that is now under the gutter rail. A 30' piece was nearly a perfect length. I did it this way (versus putting on the gutter) so there wasn't a vertical seam for the water to work through on the butyl.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image_11860.jpg Views:	80 Size:	118.4 KB ID:	78494

    6) Reattached the gutter rail over the butyl using #10 x 1" stainless screws. (The originals were #8 x 1" --I went one size larger as I was sure the material in the wall was compromised.) A helper was needed at this point to hold the other end of the gutter.
    7) Install the new decorative cover in the gutter. (Easy!)
    8) Cap seal and caulk. (I'm a lousy caulker...looks like I turned loose a kindergarten class on fingerpainting day to apply it...sheesh.)

    Still need to do some finishing work and tackle the curb side. If there's anything pertinent I'll add it to this thread. As always, questions and comments (or constructive critiques) welcome.

    Howard

    Last edited by howson; 03-07-2022, 09:13 PM.
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

  • #2
    That's unsettling to find. Looks like a good job fixing it. Maybe GD needs to relearn making joints waterproof since their products live outdoors.
    Ted
    2021 Reflection 310RLS
    2020 F350 PS,CC,LB,SRW

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    • #3
      Good find and great repair Howard. My only question is, were those "bubbles" only under the decals? It wasn't the siding delaminating, right?
      Paul and Deb Cervone
      2022 Imagine XLS 22MLE
      2021 Imagine XLS 17MKE - SOLD; 2015 Reflection 337RLS - SOLD
      2016 GMC Denali 3500 SRW

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      • #4
        howson As usual, valuable information Howard.

        This is disturbing where I also have an issue from when my wall was replaced. The gutter was installed with a huge sag right above the slide, so I will be removing the gutters after seeing your post and installing them correctly with stainless screws and the new vinyl insert material. The fellow from RV Roof Install also speaks of this improved gutter cap material. I've also seen where he uses TPO sealant under the gutter. Not sure which method is better, just throwing that out there.

        Here is the black.

        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6881256ee6190a

        And White

        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2640036315c713

        Jim
        Last edited by Guest; 03-07-2022, 11:48 AM.

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        • #5
          Howard howson - don't like the discovery but a number of folks including Rob Cate&Rob have shared rusty/wet screws removed from various exterior wall locations. And as is usual, when you are done the repair final /improvement process and final product will be top notch....well done !

          Will this discovery and those like it be something you and the Moderators will share with GDRV in your company visit and/or in other ways ? Trust this will be the case and I along with many of us would appreciate your feedback on this feedback/discussions with them. And as usual, this is the case to improve the product/process of which GDRV has been welcome to over the years.......something that makes them stand above which we all have appreciated !

          Dan
          Dan & Carol
          2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
          2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD - 2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Paul & Deb View Post
            Good find and great repair Howard. My only question is, were those "bubbles" only under the decals? It wasn't the siding delaminating, right?
            Yes, the water was "just" under the vinyl sticker, Paul. There's no doubt, though, that the wood (luan or whatever) is damaged where the screws penetrated due to all the moisture. I did not detect any delamination in the wall itself.

            Dan ( Canyonlight ) correctly points out that others have identified moisture penetration as an issue from screws and even I've removed exterior screws and resealed them (dipping in silicone). For some reason the gutter strip never drew my attention until watching Jarred's video. And I've done plenty of roof inspections. Seems like there's always more to learn.

            Jim ( Guest ) -- sealant is also a choice that could work. I chose butyl based on installations on the roof (Winegard, MaxxAir fan, etc) that called for a butyl base that is then cap sealed. The butyl also serves to seal the screw as it drives through the material.

            What I failed to mention in the first post: I'm getting that armored roof after the summer camping season. I'm done with roof inspections / sealing / caulking and all the associated nonsense.
            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

            Comment


            • #7
              howson, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. One more thing to check out and correct. It sure keeps us busy.

              That's great about the amored roof. Something for me to think about too. But with all the solar panels on your roof, there's going to be a lot of extra labor.
              Home Base: Fairfax, Virginia
              2021 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS Travel Trailer
              2002 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel 4X4 SRW

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              • #8
                Howard, Unfortunately I can see the staples being used as a speed in assembly aid. 2 guys align the track, bop (highly technical term here) it with a few staples so the helper can get back to his job, then gutter guy is off to drive screws in track for 15 minutes.

                You might also want to check out https://crazyseal.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQi...QaAnO_EALw_wcB in case you want to save a few copper plated zinc buttons. Basically a DIY for the roof armor. Then you have control to build the vents any way you want.
                Joseph
                Tow
                Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                South of Houston Texas

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                • #9
                  WARNING: Don't Repeat This Mistake!
                  Hey sports fans--can anyone guess what's attached to the curbside front gutter of a 315RLTS? Why yes--it's the front awning material. Somehow yours truly completely and utterly failed to see that.

                  So there I was, barely hanging on with the ladder at a crazy 45 degree angle since the awning had half deployed (since the gutter and material were now free of the camper where I'd removed the screws). Holding on for life and limb, I started yelling at a neighbor who (thankfully) was outside, he started yelling and before I knew it there was a yard full of neighbors helping me get the awning down.

                  Before we got the awning off the camper I cut the wires to the lights and awning motor so they didn't get ripped out of the camper. The gutter was bent but it is (mostly) back into shape--we'll see it looks when I attempt reinstallation tomorrow. If nothing else, when someone asks why the gutter looks off I'll have a story to tell. Once the gutters are back up and sealed I get to figure out how to reinstall an awning. <sigh>

                  Funny how since none of the other awnings or toppers utilize the gutter as the material holder, it never dawned on me (nor did I even look) that the material for the front awning was held by the gutter. Very lucky I wasn't hurled off the ladder when that awning deployed. (By the way--all I had to do was remove the star retainer on both hydraulic arms to remove the pressure.)
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                  • #10
                    Glad your ok Howard.

                    Looks like you have great neighbors.

                    Jim

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                    • #11
                      Yikes! . . . Good thing you neighbours were there. Why am I reminded of the guy sitting on the end of the branch while cutting it off with the saw . . . Lol!

                      When it comes time to put the awning back up, just ask. Bin-ther-dun-that.
                      Rob
                      Cate & Rob
                      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                      2015 Reflection 303RLS
                      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                      • #12
                        Holy cow, glad nobody got hurt Howard. Dang hindsight huh? Just a suggestion, maybe modify your very first post to tell users to read through the entire thread for the warning. You know, for people who are like me and sometimes skim through threads
                        Again, glad you're okay.
                        2019 Imagine 2400BH
                        2019 F150 XLT Super Crew, EcoBoost, 6.5' box, Max tow package with 3.55 ratio

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                        • #13
                          Wow that's quite a story for sure. I'm sure you'll get great advice for the awning, but I can vouch for it being a pain. I changed my rear arm. My father in law and I did a bit of research and I was pretty sure it was under spring tension but he was dead convinced it was not. As I'm sure you know it is, and winding it back up with regular garage tools was not fun.
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          Neil Citro
                          2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                          2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by StephenO View Post
                            Holy cow, glad nobody got hurt Howard. Dang hindsight huh? Just a suggestion, maybe modify your very first post to tell users to read through the entire thread for the warning. You know, for people who are like me and sometimes skim through threads
                            Again, glad you're okay.
                            Done! Thanks for the suggestion.
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why did you not use Eternabond Tape the full length of the RV?? You can overlap the Eternabond over the guttering water could not get in anywhere that way. I have the same problem you do on my 2018 150 5th wheel.I have seen others use the Eternabond ??

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