Tank monitoring

[bellis]

bellis

The fresh tank on the drawing is rated at 45 gallons.

Can you elaborate on the drawing? Source?

bellis

For "best way" to add water...what you want is a consistent result. I assume the majority of the time water will be added when the trailer is level. Fill 'er up and measure the amount using your gauge until water just starts suggesting to come out of the overflow.

If you add a valve (as I did and many others) there is the danger of forgetting--which will lead to really bad results. If you can adopt Cate&Rob 's solution (or something similar) it will take the human-factor out of the equation. There still could be "slosh loss" while traveling.

Is slosh loss just water coming from that low point drain while moving because it is sloshing around?
Would I be just as well to open the gravity port (so air / pressure can escape), put a valve on the low drain, and fill it up until it comes out the gravity port?
By Cate&Rob's solution - you mean we plumbing the entire rig? lol Is that what happened to them that caused a fitting to blow? IE put a valve on low point drain and forgot or kept filling?

bellis

Of greater concern, though, is your GVWR. Do you really have over 400 pounds of cargo carrying capacity left in your 2800BH after loading up with all of the family's "stuff"? With all of your mods, when is the last time you ran the trailer across the scale? You may find the amount of water that the tank can hold is not relevant--what you can carry may be the limitation.

I need to get across a scale again. I have added hundreds of pounds in batteries/solar etc. My quick back of the napkin math leads me to believe I have not exceeded GVWR (of the trailer at least). I have 1,461 lbs of potential cargo capacity. Total GVRW of 7,495. So, at 8.34 pounds per gallon - I think I have plenty of weight room....but you are right...need to get across a scale.

[Country Campers]

bellis

The drawing that Howard has referenced is provided to the Moderators by Grand Design, we are not allowed to share these drawings.

The sloshing affect is from overfilling the fresh tank. Grand Design recommends to fill the fresh tank until the lights on the convenience panel indicate full. The fresh tank is not to be filled until water flows from the blue overflow tube. When the tank is filled until water exits the blue overflow tube this causes the "syphon" affect, draining quite a bit of water from the fresh tank. Even when the tank is filled until the indicator lights say it is full sloshing and syphoning may come into play while traveling.

The easiest way to get around the loss of water while traveling is to install a valve on the blue overflow pipe , this is 3/4" PEX and place like Home Depot has slip on plastic valves for this. With that said Grand Design does not recommend doing this because if the owner fails to open the valve during filling or open the valve during use it will cause damage to the tank.

Grand Design has implemented a second blue overflow tube from the recommendation of Rob , Cate&Rob , to stop the sloshing and syphoning affect while traveling to reduce water loss. This is in the early stages of testing by GD and I have yet to see one on an Rv.

I have installed the valve on the blue overflow pipe and yes I have forgot to open it while using, after about 12 hours of use it sure sucks a lot of air in to replace the water that has been used. I do have a reminder note at the water panel now.

Brian

[applewpb]

Bellis
yesterday i filled my fresh tank using power fill from city connection and waited until the blue overflow valve started dumping water. Then I knew it was full. I fooled with the voltage settings, but don’t follow how to set the voltage settings correctly to give me accurate tank readings.
Mark

[bellis]

Bellis
yesterday i filled my fresh tank using power fill from city connection and waited until the blue overflow valve started dumping water. Then I knew it was full. I fooled with the voltage settings, but don’t follow how to set the voltage settings correctly to give me accurate tank readings.
Mark

Assuming the CGGX interface is the same as my Cerbo GX....

1. Select Menu
2. Select the Fresh Sensor
3. Select Setup
4. Scroll down until you see: "Sensor value". Take note of the value when both full and empty.
5. Scroll back up and change the "Sensor value when full" to match.
6 Empty tank and do the same for "Sensor value when empty".

May want to change averaging time to 60s as well per Safiery.

Let me know if that helps!

[applewpb]

bellis
I spent a few hours filling all the tanks, taking the sensor readings and adjusting the full/empty values into the CCGX. Then I emptied everything, put ten gallons into the black tank and 15 gallons into the fresh tank; just to see how accurate the readings were. I am somewhat disappointed with the results I am seeing on the CCGX.
I guess close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but my fresh tank (15 Gal) is reading 24 gal, and the black tank(10 gal) reads 27 gal. I used a device that measures how much water goes into each tank, BTW. What are your findings?

[bellis]

bellis
I spent a few hours filling all the tanks, taking the sensor readings and adjusting the full/empty values into the CCGX. Then I emptied everything, put ten gallons into the black tank and 15 gallons into the fresh tank; just to see how accurate the readings were. I am somewhat disappointed with the results I am seeing on the CCGX.
I guess close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but my fresh tank (15 Gal) is reading 24 gal, and the black tank(10 gal) reads 27 gal. I used a device that measures how much water goes into each tank, BTW. What are your findings?

Well - today I spent a little time working on....When empty the sensors seem pretty accurate - although still battling slight voltage changes and the sensor value when empty setting. IE if I set it too high and the voltage drops below it looks like it has a very quick error on that sensor. I still need to work on the LPG....they cost the most and I don't have them working yet.

I thought the sensor was off - filled fresh tank last weekend, but was on very unlevel ground. We may have used some shortly after (DW puts a little water in the grey/black with some chemicals usually.....but it was reading like 67% full on the fresh. I thought this was way off since I had filled the fresh until the overflow poured out. Well, today I forgot to put the flow meter on as I filled (now have water at my farm) but I put a ton in....and I also installed a ball valve on the overflow drain. Waited until it started dripping, turned water off, and then closed the valve. 100% full. Who knows - once it starts pouring out of the overflow drain, maybe it takes more than it should if there is pressure on it. I also opened the gravity fill so air could escape while filling.

I may bump the tank size back up to 53 gallons - not sure that is what it is....and howson is probably right based on the drawing. So, not sure if I should put it at 45 gallons or 46...but I guess I will need to play with that.

What are your settings for each sensor? For empty and full? Averaging time?

I am going to change my empty values for the Kitchen Grey tank back to 0.0V and see what happens. I think it is going to show that it has just a little bit of water in each tank if I do so....this may be true though...? I had all of them set at 0.3V for empty previously....Bathroom Grey is still at that amount. I guess with leveling I am questioning how empty some of the tanks are after dumping. It's either that or I need to check the wiring connection on Grey 1 (Kitchen) to make sure it is secure.

All things considered - it is taking a little trial and error....and some tweaking....but so far...I think I am pretty happy with them. Seem FAR more accurate than factory sensors. They have a deviation of 2-4% - so I expect them to be accurate to 2-4%.On these tanks that is within say 2 gallons for a margin of error. When I compare that to the accuracy of the factory sensors of +/- ~15 gallons....that is pretty significantly different.

[applewpb]

bellis
I took my tank sizes from the GD parts list for my Solitude. In my fresh water tank, I did not add in the extra 12 gal for the HWH as that water is not in the tank being measured. Here are the sizes and my readings:
Rig was level
Black Tank 50 gal
E 0.0
F 1.4
Grey Kitchen 50 gal
E 0.4
F 3.1
Bath Grey 50 gal
E 0.0
F 1.3
Fresh 81 gal
E 0.1
F 1.1
I played with the averaging times and found that keeping it on a lower setting (10s) allows for minute voltage changes to average out. I seem to get very random reading errors on the Fresh Tank only, that's the only tank that gives me an"error" reading.. Another curious reading on the Fresh tank; right now the CCGX is reporting Level 28%, Remaining 23 on the 81 gallon tank. It is accurate, but remaining should be 58 not 23! As I respond and check the CCGX, I am finding that the level/remaining readings are consistent. The big question, are they accurate?
I have to agree with you, its better that the readings I get from the GD Convenience Center Display, I just wish the accuracy of the readings could be adjusted and fine-tuned better. If we know how much liquid is added to the tanks, in my case 10 gal to the empty black tank, and 15 gal to the empty Fresh water tank, we should see that amount reflected in the sensor readings, mine were off as indicated in my previous post.
Maybe Bruce could look at our results, and give us some ways to tweak the settings. Might be worth a try.

Mark

[applewpb]

bellis
I just sent an email to Bruce, ask him if there were any settings we could change to more accurately reflect our tank levels. I will let you know if I get a response.

Mark

[KamFlyer]

Hey everyone. Just starting to look into this as we recently installed a Cerbo GX. I was wondering if anyone has tried the Safieri hydrostatic transducers? The ultrasonic glue on ones aren't even listed on their products page at the moment. I have sent a query to see if that is an oversight or ?. Right now I am just interested in monitoring the fresh tank.
If the hydrostatic ones are a viable option, they may be simpler to install in the fresh tank by T'ing off the outflow fitting.
-Rob-

[howson]

Hey everyone. Just starting to look into this as we recently installed a Cerbo GX. I was wondering if anyone has tried the Safieri hydrostatic transducers? The ultrasonic glue on ones aren't even listed on their products page at the moment. I have sent a query to see if that is an oversight or ?. Right now I am just interested in monitoring the fresh tank.
If the hydrostatic ones are a viable option, they may be simpler to install in the fresh tank by T'ing off the outflow fitting.
-Rob-

The OP of this thread, bellis , hasn't logged in since October. The other active individual on this thread, Mark ( applewpb ), last logged in in early November. Hopefully they will check in, see those tags, and reply to your query.

Neil, ncitro , may have some insight.

Howard

[ncitro]

The OP of this thread, bellis , hasn't logged in since October. The other active individual on this thread, Mark ( applewpb ), last logged in in early November. Hopefully they will check in, see those tags, and reply to your query.

Neil, ncitro , may have some insight.

Howard

Unfortunately not. I've followed this thread with interest but haven't tried any of it myself yet since I've already got the Seelevel system installed.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

It seems...so far that the safieri/victron system may not be working 100%? Both stopped posting before getting the system fully functional. Actually, it's functional, just not dialled in 100%?

[KamFlyer]

Just did a bit more reading on the hydrostatic transducers. They may not be suitable as the highest sensitivity ones I could find were 0-2 PSI. My tank is only about 8" thick so max pressure would only be about 0.3 PSI. Probably not enough to get reliable readings.
More research required me thinks

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I seem to remember bellis posting about why he chose the sensors he did. Maybe try PM'ing him for a bit of insight?

[bellis]

Hey everyone. Just starting to look into this as we recently installed a Cerbo GX. I was wondering if anyone has tried the Safieri hydrostatic transducers? The ultrasonic glue on ones aren't even listed on their products page at the moment. I have sent a query to see if that is an oversight or ?. Right now I am just interested in monitoring the fresh tank.
If the hydrostatic ones are a viable option, they may be simpler to install in the fresh tank by T'ing off the outflow fitting.
-Rob-

I have not looked at those...I didn't want to alter plumbing and if you have been under your rig - mine is a little tight on space as it relates to plumbing in some cases. Just a couple of reasons I went the route I did. Have had very good success so far.

The only thing I haven't finished with this is the propane sensors. I just haven't had time to contact them or attempt to sand the bottom of a propane tank (don't particularly want to do that).

The OP of this thread, bellis , hasn't logged in since October. The other active individual on this thread, Mark ( applewpb ), last logged in in early November. Hopefully they will check in, see those tags, and reply to your query.

Neil, ncitro , may have some insight.

Howard

Been meaning to sign in and check in....life has just gotten a little crazy lately between work and personal.....so haven't had much time for the camper...

I seem to remember bellis posting about why he chose the sensors he did. Maybe try PM'ing him for a bit of insight?

Anyone feel free to PM me anytime!