Tank monitoring

[Scott'n'Wendy]

bellis
Thanks for the detailed review! I really appreciate it.
For sure the touchscreen looks much better. The SL panel is really just as antiquated as what comes with these trailers originally so I don't consider it a step down, just not a big step up like your Touch50.
As I said I'm evaluating at this point.
But, so I'm clear. I would need to buy (because I have no Victron kit at the moment) a tank140, a CerboGX, a touch50 panel, four sensors and some wire. Correct? Or can the tank140 go directly to a Touch50?
Thanks

[bellis]

Bellis
Great thread, and I feel as you do with the Safiery sensors. Having had the Victron equipment anyhow, it seemed the best way to go in my case as well.
Bruce says to set a value when empty…meaning the tank capacity? I will rely on your testing for now until I hit the road, then we can compare notes about accuracy and settings. And to your point, the CCGX is a beautiful way to see the poop tank levels.
Mark

Correct. So it appears the best or at least first set of calibrations needed are to fill the tank completely. Look at the "Sensor value" under setup....then set the "Sensor value when full" to this value. Likewise, completely empty the tank, look at the "sensor value" voltage and set the "Sensor value when empty" to this level. Obviously this could be done in reverse order of what I just outlined.

So far, I have only filled the tanks and made the change. My wife put a little water and chemicals into the tanks (grey/grey/black) and I may wait until our next trip the following weekend to empty and set those values. I may try to do it on my way into the campground so I can see them over the weekend. I would just dump all of them now (nothing really in them)....but no dump station near by....and my DW likes a little fresh water for when we do travel in case it is needed.

I am hoping to get my LPG sensors operational before then as well though. So, more info to come. Waiting on a reply from Bruce....hoping the temp sensor I bought goes directly to the cerbo and not the GX Tank 140....but not sure....and I have room in both places. Almost wish I had purchased 2-3 of those ($20? each? Would have to convert from AUD to USD).

So - calibration and I also need to mount the GX tank 140s and clean that up as well (in my pass through)....will post more as I can.

[bellis]

bellis
Thanks for the detailed review! I really appreciate it.
For sure the touchscreen looks much better. The SL panel is really just as antiquated as what comes with these trailers originally so I don't consider it a step down, just not a big step up like your Touch50.
As I said I'm evaluating at this point.
But, so I'm clear. I would need to buy (because I have no Victron kit at the moment) a tank140, a CerboGX, a touch50 panel, four sensors and some wire. Correct? Or can the tank140 go directly to a Touch50?
Thanks

You have it correct.

You could instead buy the CCGX instead of the Cerbo GX and Touch 50 GX....it is an all in one integrated unit.....I think applewpb has that....but I would probably not recommend it if starting from scratch. It is the Cerbo and touch screen all in one....which means wiring has to go there. I think the Cerbo GX gives a little more flexibility. I think someone on the forum built the Cerbo GX basically out of a Raspberry pi. That may save some money if you went that route. It runs the Venus OS from Victron.

GX Tank 40 cannot go directly to the Touch 50 GX. It can go directly (I believe) to the CCGX. It has a USB interface that can be extended with a USB extension cable if needed.

If you get serious - I would recommend contacting Battleborn or AMSolar (or your victron dealer of choice) and ask them to build AND discount you a quote.

Extra cable may or may not be needed depending on your setup....but since you have a bigger rig than I do....I would go out on a limb and say it wouldn't hurt....But, you also may be able to mount your GX Tank 140 somewhere in the underbelly and use a USB extension cable to make it to the CCGX or Cerbo GX.

Hope that helps.....if you do decide to jump into this...feel free to reach out or '@' me and I will do whatever I can to assist.

[howson]

You have it correct.

You could instead buy the CCGX instead of the Cerbo GX and Touch 50 GX....it is an all in one integrated unit.....I think applewpb has that....but I would probably not recommend it if starting from scratch. It is the Cerbo and touch screen all in one....which means wiring has to go there. I think the Cerbo GX gives a little more flexibility. I think someone on the forum built the Cerbo GX basically out of a Raspberry pi. That may save some money if you went that route. It runs the Venus OS from Victron.

GX Tank 40 cannot go directly to the Touch 50 GX. It can go directly (I believe) to the CCGX. It has a USB interface that can be extended with a USB extension cable if needed.

If you get serious - I would recommend contacting Battleborn or AMSolar (or your victron dealer of choice) and ask them to build AND discount you a quote.

Extra cable may or may not be needed depending on your setup....but since you have a bigger rig than I do....I would go out on a limb and say it wouldn't hurt....But, you also may be able to mount your GX Tank 140 somewhere in the underbelly and use a USB extension cable to make it to the CCGX or Cerbo GX.

Hope that helps.....if you do decide to jump into this...feel free to reach out or '@' me and I will do whatever I can to assist.

The name used by Victron is unfortunate. IMHO the Touch 50 and Touch 70 should not have "GX" in their names. These panels are accessories to the Cerbo GX, they are not in themselves a GX device. https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...av-secondimage

Victron has an introduction that explains the purpose for their GX devices (and the product range) here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/venus-os:start



And it's Neil, ncitro that built his own GX from a Pi.

[dsimmons]

And it's Neil, ncitro that built his own GX from a Pi.

Neil's wife Deanna here. Can confirm Neil built a GX out of a raspberry pi.

[bellis]

The name used by Victron is unfortunate. IMHO the Touch 50 and Touch 70 should not have "GX" in their names. These panels are accessories to the Cerbo GX, they are not in themselves a GX device. https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...av-secondimage

Victron has an introduction that explains the purpose for their GX devices (and the product range) here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/venus-os:start



And it's Neil, ncitro that built his own GX from a Pi.

howson nailed it.....but I wish he had not posted this....I was completely unaware of the GX Touch 70 - it was not around to my knowledge when I purchased the Touch 50. 2 additional inches of screen.....gah....it must be brand new....I don't see one on Amazon. I may upgrade some day.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Well, if you wanna sell your touch50 cheap......lol

[bellis]

Well, if you wanna sell your touch50 cheap......lol

Hey - I may take you up on that!

[applewpb]

Bellis
I should be able to test my settings/calibrations starting the 25th and will post my findings as things unfold. I will be curious to see how your temp sensor install goes as well.
“Scott & Wendy“ if you do decide to use the Victron equipment, we are all here to help with any questions you may have. Good luck!

Mark

[bellis]

applewpb I was able to get a setting recommendation out of Bruce over @ Safiery.

"Use a long averaging time like 60-120 seconds, it dampens the liquid movement effect".

I could see where this would help reduce changes while the liquid sloshed around....but I could also see this reducing the speed at which it updates as tanks are being used. Maybe the latter is insignificant - IE we can't use it fast enough for that to be too big of a concern?

I am trying to get info from him on the LPG - they are blue, but not blinking. I do not think there is any air between the sensor and the tank (plenty of jelly)....but wondering if LPG tank paint is interfering? I have basic LPG tanks - I think blue rhino like you see at most stores for exchange. Thinking about taking a low, 80 grit, sandpaper and random orbital sander to the bottom of the LPG tank....would love to know if anyone has thoughts on this.

Also - trying to get info from him on the temp sensor. So, it has not been installed yet.

[mpking]

I am trying to get info from him on the LPG - they are blue, but not blinking. I do not think there is any air between the sensor and the tank (plenty of jelly)....but wondering if LPG tank paint is interfering? I have basic LPG tanks - I think blue rhino like you see at most stores for exchange. Thinking about taking a low, 80 grit, sandpaper and random orbital sander to the bottom of the LPG tank....would love to know if anyone has thoughts on this.

I don't think the paint is going to make much of a difference. The steel would be harder than the paint. I wouldn't do the sandpaper cause it's just opening you up for rust down the road.

I have the Mopeka sensors, they are ultrasound based, and I don't feel the paint impacted them.

Not knowing *ANYTHING* about your system, but I would hazard a guess that I think it might be more a pairing problem. If you were getting bad data (Blinking) that would be a reading the tank problem. But it sounds like they are not even syncing up.

[bellis]

I don't think the paint is going to make much of a difference. The steel would be harder than the paint. I wouldn't do the sandpaper cause it's just opening you up for rust down the road.

I have the Mopeka sensors, they are ultrasound based, and I don't feel the paint impacted them.

Not knowing *ANYTHING* about your system, but I would hazard a guess that I think it might be more a pairing problem. If you were getting bad data (Blinking) that would be a reading the tank problem. But it sounds like they are not even syncing up.

I agree on the rust....I have held off so far. With Safiery they are supposed to be solid blue when powered on and blinking when operating. They show up on the Cerbo/VRM...but showing 0%

In other news - I think the Refrigerator temperature sensor I bought from Safiery is for their Simarine products only? I hooked it up and nothing. Prior to this I was reading that Victron's temp sensors (not for the shunt) work on non-batteries despite the large lug. I had one, so I hooked it up in my passthrough and it is reporting temperatures. Not sure what I am going to do on the refrigerator. Both of these are plugged directly into the Cerbo GX (Temp 1 and Temp 2).

Waiting to hear back from Bruce.

[bellis]

So, this weekend....I attempted to dump all tanks (was on an incline) and then set sensor value when empty. I then filled the fresh full - and it did not show full - more on that in a second. I am still working on trusting the sensor readings. I think both Grey and the Black are pretty accurate. Here are the current settings I am using. This is based on filling tanks, looking at current sensor voltage on the Cerbo GX and changing full setting and the same with empty. Again, on empty I was on an incline and it may not have emptied perfectly.

Sensor:	Empty Voltage:	Full Voltage:	Averaging Time:
Fresh	0.3	1.2	60s
Grey 1 Kitchen	0.3	1.3	60s
Grey 2 Bath	0.3	1.1	60s
Black	0.3	1.1	60s
LPG 1			60s
LPG 2			60s

Now on to the fresh. Perhaps a noob question....I have filled it using the gravity fed port as well as the convenience center with the valve set to fresh fill. What I usually do is fill until what I believe is the low point drain (single blue pipe near wheels) starts pouring water out. I do this with both methods. I was on an incline (unfortunately) but when I filled until it started pouring out....I only got about 66% tank full reading....previous voltage when full set when filling the tank completely on flatter ground....so I have stuck with that. I have gotten smaller readings from the flow monitor....this last time was 30-33 gallons before it started pouring from the bottom.

Here are some questions I am trying to figure out/musing - and am happy for any of you to weight in on any of them ( howson mpking applewpb Scott'n'Wendy or others)

What is the BEST way to fill your fresh tank? Does it matter if you use the convenience center vs gravity fed?
Should I buy a valve for the low point drain so I can prevent it from pouring out?
What happens if I put a shut off valve on the low point drain and close it....and then fill it. Will I spring a leak somewhere or will the water stop filling due to full?
Should I put a valve on the low point drain, fill until it starts pouring out....remove water source and then turn valve off?
Do I have my fresh tank size in gallons way off?
Can you trust those cheap flow monitors from Amazon? How accurate are they?

[mpking]

I"Low Point Drain" = Overflow Tube.

What is the BEST way to fill your fresh tank? Does it matter if you use the convenience center vs gravity fed?

Can't answer, never thought about it, would need to see a picture of how the tanks are plumbed to answer.

Should I buy a valve for the low point drain so I can prevent it from pouring out?

See below!

What happens if I put a shut off valve on the low point drain and close it....and then fill it. Will I spring a leak somewhere or will the water stop filling due to full?

You will cause pressure in the tank, since the Air will not have anyplace to escape. You might be OK because us Imagine Guys have the gravity fill, so the air could exit there, but I don't know where the gravity fill interfaces with the tank. (If it was below the water line, no air could escape) Moral of the story, you could cause the tank to expand and crack.

Should I put a valve on the low point drain, fill until it starts pouring out....remove water source and then turn valve off?

This works, and has been suggested many times. (I don't do this)

Do I have my fresh tank size in gallons way off?

Grand Design states you have 52 gallons fresh. I do not know if this INCLUDES or EXCLUDES the hot water heater. I'm assuming it includes its (So you should expect 46 gallons)

Can you trust those cheap flow monitors from Amazon? How accurate are they?

I have one. Seems pretty accurate. Last trip I put in about 44 gallons and it started gushing from the overflow.

[howson]

bellis

Mike, mpking , covered the basics.

If the specs say 52 gallons, they are including the water heater and maybe water in the lines(!). The fresh tank on the drawing is rated at 45 gallons.

For "best way" to add water...what you want is a consistent result. I assume the majority of the time water will be added when the trailer is level. Fill 'er up and measure the amount using your gauge until water just starts suggesting to come out of the overflow.

If you add a valve (as I did and many others) there is the danger of forgetting--which will lead to really bad results. If you can adopt Cate&Rob 's solution (or something similar) it will take the human-factor out of the equation. There still could be "slosh loss" while traveling.

Of greater concern, though, is your GVWR. Do you really have over 400 pounds of cargo carrying capacity left in your 2800BH after loading up with all of the family's "stuff"? With all of your mods, when is the last time you ran the trailer across the scale? You may find the amount of water that the tank can hold is not relevant--what you can carry may be the limitation.