Who sources the wet bolts? All four fail (two snap, two getting ready to)?

[ajg617]

Left NH on July 25th after getting the coach back from the dealer to pull the wheels and re-pack the bearings as well as check for along trip. 3,000 miles later we are prepping to leave East Glacier KOA for West Glacier and my wife is checking the torque on the lugs. As she puts pressure on the lug, the right rear wheel rolls forward about 4 inches. No wet bolt or bushing and spring just hanging. Mobile tech shows up today and looks at the left rear - wet bolt busted in two but still wedged into the spring and hanger assembly. Looks at the front two and both curved and getting ready to break. Safety critical and no support from Grand Design. I'm guessing that Grand Design sourced the wet bolts and bushings. I've heard much about premature bushing wear, but never two breaking and two about to snap. Trailer GVWR is 18K with the 8K axles. I CAT Scale before every trip and the most it's weighed is 15.5K. I've lubed the wet bolts every 6K miles and there was plenty of red & tacky left on the missing one and the broken one.

Lippert may supply a new hanger if I can find a shop that will torch the old hanger off and weld the new one on.

But, I'm sorry but there is a fundamental flaw here, either with the supply chain source for the bolts I have, or with the strength of the frame.

Broken left rear below. Right rear missing somewhere in Montana.

[TucsonJim]

Wow - That is a new failure that I've not seen before. And on a 2022 to boot! In ten years of forum and social media groups, I've never seen this. I could see one failing, But four of them? I'm trying to understand the forces that are coming into play here. I believe the wet bolts and shackles on your unit are from Dexter. However, your 2022 was likely built during the pandemic when parts shortages were frequent.

Do you know if anyone has ever checked the torque on the wet bolts and if so, what valued they used?

Are you seeing any problem with the wet bolts that are not in the spring eyes?

Have any of the failing bolts been removed yet? If so, it would be interesting to see what the failure mode looks like. Are the heads coming loose? Or are they failing at the grease hole?

BTW, the Dexter axle manual recommends that suspension wet bolts be greased every 3 months or 3,000 miles. But I strongly doubt your schedule had any effect.



Jim

[ajg617]

Wow - That is a new failure that I've not seen before. And on a 2022 to boot! In ten years of forum and social media groups, I've never seen this. I could see one failing, But four of them? I'm trying to understand the forces that are coming into play here. I believe the wet bolts and shackles on your unit are from Dexter. However, your 2022 was likely built during the pandemic when parts shortages were frequent.

Do you know if anyone has ever checked the torque on the wet bolts and if so, what valued they used?

Are you seeing any problem with the wet bolts that are not in the spring eyes?

Have any of the failing bolts been removed yet? If so, it would be interesting to see what the failure mode looks like. Are the heads coming loose? Or are they failing at the grease hole?

BTW, the Dexter axle manual recommends that suspension wet bolts be greased every 3 months or 3,000 miles. But I strongly doubt your schedule had any effect.

Jim

Jim,
No one that I know of has checked the torque unless the selling/maintaining dealer has. The welds on both rear hangers are broken and the right rear hole for the bolt so enlarged it can't be used. We ordered the 2022 and it was built tail end of pandemic - Dec 2021. Lippert had manufacturing issues with the Schwintek and they have already replaced that under their TSB. Now I'm also wondering if they had manufacturing issues with their frames. Failure of the one bolt removed (one MIA in Montana and no idea it even fell out) is in picture below and yes - at the grease hole. I'm no metallurgist but the point of fracture seems to be questionable. I have four replacement bolts, but I can't have anyone do anything without a new hanger from LCI. I have sent pictures to Lippert, but meanwhile we are sitting waiting for guidance from anyone in either company (and new hangers).

I'm at the point where I have some serious concerns about the safety integrity of this build. Last year, the filon screws snapped and measurements had to be taken to see if there was a frame issue up front. I'm out of GD warranty as of April this year, but I really expected a little more support from them. Below that are pictures from the RR hanger with the temporary bolt (an old head bolt) we put in just to keep the spring in what's left of the hanger.

[ajg617]

Jim,
And to answer your question on the wet bolts in the CRE3000, they look sound and intact but I still want them inspected based on the movement of the 'loose' axle must have exerted on them.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I would think with the cre3000 equalizers, you should have bolts source from mor-ryde not dexter.

But my first thought after reading your story was they sourced bolts from some fly by night outfit.
I wonder if there are different wet bolts used on heavier trailers. And you ended up somehow with the weaker spec? But take lots of pics, keep all bits and pieces. The bolts may not be the root cause. Everything in your suspension needs to be examined imo.

[AlexPeterson]

It would seemingly require a high count, cyclic load to cause this fatigue failure. I can only think that the wheels were notably out of balance, or less likely, out of round. Tight turns on hard pavement put an extreme amount of lateral stress on the axles/springs also, but the design should accommodate that, one would hope...

[familytruckster4]

Cheap fasteners arent good and good fasteners arent cheap. They were likely made overseas and clearly did not have sufficient quality control. Was it the raw material or the forging process, we will never know ?

[JBill9694]

ajg617, personal experience with a broken hanger is to contact a trailer fabrication/repair shop instead of an RV dealer or RV mobile tech. If trailer can't be safely moved, ask about and google for a moblile welder. We were able to get up and running again in less than 24 hours with our broken hanger. Also, save all the parts, Lippet or Dexter may want them if your looking to get reimbursed.

[ajg617]

Welds on both rear hangers broke. We can't have a mobile welder due to fire restrictions here. There is a shop about 15 miles away and the tech was out looking at it yesterday. He put temp bolts in the rear hangers so we could get it to their shop where they can weld it. Upon looking at the pictures he took, I think the spring eyes are now bent and won't sit right in a new hangers. GD and LCI are now determining what components need to be replaced and then have to send them to the shop. We and the tech and shop are waiting for a call back. Another concern on my end is that the hanger is so bent and the axle was floating free for some distance - what did it do to the rest of the suspension? I've already been instructed to save all parts because nobody yet in LCI or GD recall seeing a similar failure in the past. I'd be curious to know what hardness the wet bolts are in other Solitudes with 8K axles. The broken one is Grade 5 which surprised the tech who just sent me a text saying the parts are being sent - don't know what yet.

[Cate&Rob]

ajg617

If the welds attaching the hangers to the frame actually failed this would be a failure mode that has not been reported on this forum. There have been several examples of hangers failing by way of a fatigue break adjacent to the weld in the heat affected area of the hanger legs. The fix for this is to stop the hanger from flexing, either by way of V braces inside the hanger or cross bracing to the hanger on the other side.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

ajg617 - Thanks for the update. Hope you're back on the road soon.

Jim

[ajg617]

ajg617

If the welds attaching the hangers to the frame actually failed this would be a failure mode that has not been reported on this forum. There have been several examples of hangers failing by way of a fatigue break adjacent to the weld in the heat affected area of the hanger legs. The fix for this is to stop the hanger from flexing, either by way of V braces inside the hanger or cross bracing to the hanger on the other side.

Rob

These are the welds that broke - both sides in the rear - front TBD. When you say V braces, I'm assuming they are different than the V-clips or rebound clips that senior LCI engineer told me were only used to keep the springs together during shipping and should be tossed once springs are installed?

[ajg617]

ajg617 - Thanks for the update. Hope you're back on the road soon.

Jim

Thanks Jim. Tech texted me a short time ago. Tech received a call from either LCI or GD that parts are on the way. Wet bolts and spring mounts. Not sure if they are sending wet bolts for the CRE3000 area or just the four for spring ends.

[ajg617]

ajg617

If the welds attaching the hangers to the frame actually failed this would be a failure mode that has not been reported on this forum. There have been several examples of hangers failing by way of a fatigue break adjacent to the weld in the heat affected area of the hanger legs. The fix for this is to stop the hanger from flexing, either by way of V braces inside the hanger or cross bracing to the hanger on the other side.

Rob

Wife told me to call MORryde - might be another fix.

[Cate&Rob]

These are the welds that broke - both sides in the rear - front TBD. When you say V braces, I'm assuming they are different than the V-clips or rebound clips that senior LCI engineer told me were only used to keep the springs together during shipping and should be tossed once springs are installed?

V braces are often called V clips and these are welded between the sides of the same hanger. Completely different than spring rebound clips. Could you post a picture of the hanger separated from the frame rail at the welds? This should be easier to repair than the more common hanger bracket fracture where the base of the hanger is still welded to the frame rail and has to be cut away before a new hanger can be welded into place.

Rob