Victron 12v to 12v charger Add

[bellis]

Many of you are familiar with our larger electrical upgrades posted here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...-and-questions

One thing that we did not do, and I am considering before our next large trip, is a 12v to 12v charger. I had looked into these in the past, but have since forgotten much of what I had learned.

Victron sells a regular and an isolated version, I believe that with a travel trailer, despite a connection from the frame to the hitch receiver, the isolated is probably the correct way to go. Someone please feel free to disagree.

I would hook this up to an upfitter switch. I am thinking the 12/12-30 would be a good model.
It is my understanding that 2017+ models have 25A (most) and 40A (2) upfitter switches. None of mine are currently used.
https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-...tter-switches/

I believe running output in voltage can be as high as 14.5V. To be safe if I say 15V X 40A = 600 watts. I do not think Victron makes a model that high. 14.5V x 40A = 580 watts....so being a little safer doesn't help my math. 15V x 25A = 375 watts and 14.5V X 25A = 362.5 watts. This puts me at the 12/12-30 that supports up to 360 watts. A little lighter than the output at one of my smaller fuses.
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...50-400W-EN.pdf

I do not think I would need to utilize the relay to turn this on and off as I would be manually doing this via switch and only while driving. Could use the smart on/off alternator detect if we left the truck hooked up at a quick overnight stop and it would power off the unit?

I do not see how to connect this to the Cerbo GX! Am I missing something? I think my best bet is to enable "has DC system" on the Cerbo GX to see that input. Either that, or buy an additional BMV? I have a larger one, but maybe the smaller BMV-712 would work? Set it as a DC load monitor instead of a SOC? Not sure if that is worth it...neat, but not sure how that would display on the Cerbo/Touch GX.

I do not know what the size wires coming off the fuse in the F350 are. I am guessing I will need to run a hot and ground wire from the front of the truck to the front of the camper. Based off this calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/dc-wire-size
14.5V, 3% allowed voltage loss, copper, 40Amp, and estimated 28 feet = 2AWG. 5% loss allowed is 4AWG.
14.5V, 3% allowed voltage loss, copper, 25Amp, and estimated 28 feet = 4AWG.

Has anyone done this? Any recommendations or flaws in the above? Any suggestions for a connector to wire into at the back of the truck (obviously not going to run a solid wire and connect / disconnect it each time. Need to be able to connect/disconnect easily. Is the wire size above way larger than what comes out of the upfitter switch fuse box?

Last minute entry!
I just found the Orion XS - NEW!
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...attery-charger

It looks like this does connect to the Cerbo GX vis VE.Direct and has a much higher amp limit? 50A? Looks like wire size limit for this device is 4 gauge and the isolated version has not released yet....

Thanks in advance all!

[howson]

bellis

There's a (long) thread on how I installed a 40A Renogy DC-DC Battery Charger here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...e-battle-borns There are several "lessons learned" posted I encountered what I'd do differently if installing today. Again, long thread but if you'll take the time to wade through it hopefully most of your questions will be addressed.

TucsonJim installed the Victron in his 310GK, so he'll be a great resource on the specifics related to the Cerbo. See https://gdrvowners.com/forum/solar/1...grade-progress

Howard

[TucsonJim]

Good morning bellis. The Victron 30 amp DC to DC chargers do not interface with the Cerbo other than just showing the charging current through the shunt. You can monitor them through Victron Connect when they are powered up. I believe the much newer designed 50 amp DC-DC converter is designed to work with the Cerbo.

I know you want to use the upfitter switch to power the converter. If you install the 50 amp version, you can use an upfitter switch to trigger a relay which will then pass current through a larger set of wires and a higher rated circuit breaker.

Jim

[Yoda]

Many of you are familiar with our larger electrical upgrades posted here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...-and-questions

One thing that we did not do, and I am considering before our next large trip, is a 12v to 12v charger. I had looked into these in the past, but have since forgotten much of what I had learned.

Victron sells a regular and an isolated version, I believe that with a travel trailer, despite a connection from the frame to the hitch receiver, the isolated is probably the correct way to go. Someone please feel free to disagree.

I would hook this up to an upfitter switch. I am thinking the 12/12-30 would be a good model.
It is my understanding that 2017+ models have 25A (most) and 40A (2) upfitter switches. None of mine are currently used.
https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-...tter-switches/

I believe running output in voltage can be as high as 14.5V. To be safe if I say 15V X 40A = 600 watts. I do not think Victron makes a model that high. 14.5V x 40A = 580 watts....so being a little safer doesn't help my math. 15V x 25A = 375 watts and 14.5V X 25A = 362.5 watts. This puts me at the 12/12-30 that supports up to 360 watts. A little lighter than the output at one of my smaller fuses.
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...50-400W-EN.pdf

I do not think I would need to utilize the relay to turn this on and off as I would be manually doing this via switch and only while driving. Could use the smart on/off alternator detect if we left the truck hooked up at a quick overnight stop and it would power off the unit?

I do not see how to connect this to the Cerbo GX! Am I missing something? I think my best bet is to enable "has DC system" on the Cerbo GX to see that input. Either that, or buy an additional BMV? I have a larger one, but maybe the smaller BMV-712 would work? Set it as a DC load monitor instead of a SOC? Not sure if that is worth it...neat, but not sure how that would display on the Cerbo/Touch GX.

I do not know what the size wires coming off the fuse in the F350 are. I am guessing I will need to run a hot and ground wire from the front of the truck to the front of the camper. Based off this calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/dc-wire-size
14.5V, 3% allowed voltage loss, copper, 40Amp, and estimated 28 feet = 2AWG. 5% loss allowed is 4AWG.
14.5V, 3% allowed voltage loss, copper, 25Amp, and estimated 28 feet = 4AWG.

Has anyone done this? Any recommendations or flaws in the above? Any suggestions for a connector to wire into at the back of the truck (obviously not going to run a solid wire and connect / disconnect it each time. Need to be able to connect/disconnect easily. Is the wire size above way larger than what comes out of the upfitter switch fuse box?

Last minute entry!
I just found the Orion XS - NEW!
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...attery-charger

It looks like this does connect to the Cerbo GX vis VE.Direct and has a much higher amp limit? 50A? Looks like wire size limit for this device is 4 gauge and the isolated version has not released yet....

Thanks in advance all!

I also installed a 60A DC-DC set up. It's a long post, but some good information Finding the up fitter switch wiring can be fun. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...harger-project

Keith

[ScottK]

You should watch some of the YouTube reviews of the Orion XS. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. It is Victron's largest preorder in their history and it's not really available until May 20th. Mine has been on order since early February, but I have already wired the truck and trailer for it.

Being non-isolated makes no difference. You simply have to connect the truck ground to the rv ground immediately prior to the Orion ground. I used one of these to do that: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1
I used 4 AWG marine grade wire for both positive and negative the entire route from the truck battery. I put wire loom over all of it. I used this fuse right on the battery: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I used this breaker on the positive side in the RV, right before the Orion: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I researched connectors for weeks, and finally found these, which are perfect for it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2?ie=UTF8&th=1

I've towed the trailer several times already with these connectors and am very happy with them. I did not wire into the upfitter switches because I don't care that the connector is hot all the time. It is protected with the included cover when not in use. The Orion is bluetooth, so you can control it from your phone, or from the Cerbo GX. You don't need to worry about a switch to turn it on and off. It will only run when the correct voltage is detected when the truck is running (aka it knows when the alternator is running).
Here's a photo showing how I installed the connector: https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...5IrcOR2bEXuS-b

While my order history is open, here's the loom I used (I used the blue/black on the truck side, since the truck is blue, and red/black on the RV side to match my red connectors: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

Here's the black wire: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TF8&th=1&psc=1
And the red wire: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TF8&th=1&psc=1

I think that 4 AWG is perfectly sufficient based on the Blue Sea AWG charts, the fact that Victron used 4 AWG connectors, and the fact that since the Orion XS is on the RV end of the circuit, it will be able to draw whatever amperage it needs to make up for any voltage drop. My fuse is sized to allow for a bit of excess draw, as well.

[bellis]

Read most of the linked threads over the past few days....was afraid my computer is going to reboot on me so hitting post before I lose my draft...

Good morning bellis. The Victron 30 amp DC to DC chargers do not interface with the Cerbo other than just showing the charging current through the shunt. You can monitor them through Victron Connect when they are powered up. I believe the much newer designed 50 amp DC-DC converter is designed to work with the Cerbo.

I know you want to use the upfitter switch to power the converter. If you install the 50 amp version, you can use an upfitter switch to trigger a relay which will then pass current through a larger set of wires and a higher rated circuit breaker.

Jim

Hmmn....I had not considered this. This would require running a small set of wires for the relay (turn on and off) that the upfitter switches could power and then just connecting the 4AWG to the battery? Does this only get me 5 more amps? IE 45 amps limit on the upfitter switch - now get 50 amps? I guess pro +5 amps; con another set of wires, fuses, connectors etc. Why did you go this route instead of just using the upfitter switch and power from it? If I ran off the upfitter switch at 45 amps....that would not cause me an issue with the 50 amp model...can that fuse be changed to 50 amp and save the additional wire/labor/connectors? Is this fuse not enough to protect the wire? Seems like a simpler setup and the Victron unit is supposed to be auto-sensing....so if it gets power - it should fire up....if not it should power off? I'm not sure I see the benefit? What am I missing?

howson on your post - am I to understand that a special crimper is required for the anderson plugs?
Should I double wrap my 4ga cables?

So far my parts list =

50' Red and 50' Black 4AWG
Cable loom from ScottK above (maybe 2 colors)
Connectors - looks like Yoda may have used something different? Still working on that thread.
Victron Orion XS 50 amp 12/12

[howson]

howson on your post - am I to understand that a special crimper is required for the anderson plugs?

Yes. Post 48 of my thread has the details along with lots of other lessons-learned.

Permit me to pile on to what TucsonJim advised: If you're running anything larger than the 20A Renogy, use an upfitter to trigger a relay to connect the truck to the charger. As noted in my setup's thread, the alternator's load gets as high as 60A to provide 40A output from the Renogy to the Battle Borns.

[Yoda]

Connectors - looks like Yoda may have used something different? Still working on that thread.
Victron Orion XS 50 amp 12/12

The connectors you list are cheap china knock offs.I used the SB 120 for my 60A install.. The 175A ones are overkill and huge. I have no idea if they will work withe 4awg you using . Here is the real Anderson link https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power...e=1#?specs=310

I believe I ordered mine from Dell City https://www.delcity.net/productsearc...page=1&x=0&y=0 I used a hex crimp tool to make up the pins.

I cant remember if I posted this link https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...harger-project
also this one on the Anderson plug color comparability. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...colors-caution

Keith

[bellis]

Thanks howson & Yoda. Will keep reading.

In that case howson - per post #48 send me your parts list please. Looks like my updated part list so far is:

50' Red and 50' Black 4AWG
Cable loom from ScottK above (maybe 2 colors) or maybe the 1.25" to cover both - but it only comes in 25'.
Anderson SB120 Connectors from Amazon
Victron Orion XS 50 amp 12/12 ISOLATED (will wait for it to release and will be calling maybe Battleborn to inquire)
Hex Crimp Tool (to be identified) - happy for suggestions
Rhapsody Relay - 120A/12V - 4 Pin. - although howson Would like the link to yours - need to evaluate both.
(1-2) 100amp breaker right before the Orion? Could put on trailer side or truck side. I think 100amp on this is fine with 4AWG....but will not be pulling more than 50amp. Or maybe this needs to be on the truck side and camper side to protect both wires; my initial plan of using the fuse from the upfitter switch will no longer apply....and if it ends at the end of the truck - that wire needs protected. Should I add: Fuse instead?

howson - on your thread - you were unable to get any sort of mounting solution to work?
What about this?

ncitro - where did you get the 3D printed pieces?

At the moment, and after reading all the other threads - I do not intend to disconnect the 7-pin aux charge....is this a mistake?

[howson]

howson - on your thread - you were unable to get any sort of mounting solution to work?
What about this?

No, as shown in the thread, I did not find a mount for the truck. The setup, as shown, has worked great. Interesting option (the Trailer Mount option). I can't envision how it could mount on a truck...and I'm satisfied with the performance of the setup I have. I'm sure you'll document your install so it will be informative to see your results.

... send me your parts list please. Looks like my updated part list so far is:

The only part I used that I'd change is the 60A breaker. Since the draw is near 60A, as documented late in the thread an 80A is more appropriate. Other than that everything is documented.

At the moment, and after reading all the other threads - I do not intend to disconnect the 7-pin aux charge....is this a mistake?

Mistake? No--it's a choice.

Regarding the relay -- your choice is a much more rationale, and economical, choice than what's in my setup. The difference is mine is a solid state relay and was expensive. Easy to mount, though. Post 41 spells out the details of the relay.

[Yoda]

bellis

Here is a good thread on a good crimp set for the pins, and future wire lugs https://gdrvowners.com/tools-parts-o...41-lug-crimper. Scott'n'Wendy Scott can fill in if he likes the set he got.

Thia is the set I have https://temcoindustrial.com/th0005-v...h-32-die-sets/
There are other brands, but be very careful to read the reviews - especially on Amazon. Also pay attention to the die sets included.

Temco has other sets too https://temcoindustrial.com/tools/cutters-crimpers/

Hope this helps

Keith

[TucsonJim]

bellis

Thanks for the link to the relays. I still need to wire my new truck for the two DC to DC chargers. I'll put each one on an upfitter switch and use those relays with a positive trigger. They're perfect.

Jim

[Yoda]

bellis

Thanks for the link to the relays. I still need to wire my new truck for the two DC to DC chargers. I'll put each one on an upfitter switch and use those relays with a positive trigger. They're perfect.

Jim

bellis

I missed that - and the have the larger ones available. Cost is excellent too

Jim - your putting the two DC-DC in the front bay of the trailer - correct? Are you going to run 2 separate sets of wiring off you battery through the relays to get power,? You could use a bigger relay and run one set of say 02 0r 04 to power both at the same time? Then you only need to use one up fitter switch. Just curious.?
Keith

[ScottK]

Read most of the linked threads over the past few days....was afraid my computer is going to reboot on me so hitting post before I lose my draft...



Hmmn....I had not considered this. This would require running a small set of wires for the relay (turn on and off) that the upfitter switches could power and then just connecting the 4AWG to the battery? Does this only get me 5 more amps? IE 45 amps limit on the upfitter switch - now get 50 amps? I guess pro +5 amps; con another set of wires, fuses, connectors etc. Why did you go this route instead of just using the upfitter switch and power from it? If I ran off the upfitter switch at 45 amps....that would not cause me an issue with the 50 amp model...can that fuse be changed to 50 amp and save the additional wire/labor/connectors? Is this fuse not enough to protect the wire? Seems like a simpler setup and the Victron unit is supposed to be auto-sensing....so if it gets power - it should fire up....if not it should power off? I'm not sure I see the benefit? What am I missing?

howson on your post - am I to understand that a special crimper is required for the anderson plugs?
Should I double wrap my 4ga cables?

So far my parts list =

50' Red and 50' Black 4AWG
Cable loom from ScottK above (maybe 2 colors)
Connectors - looks like Yoda may have used something different? Still working on that thread.
Victron Orion XS 50 amp 12/12

You will need hydraulic crimpers to use the connector I used. These are the crimpers and they work great: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1
I did have to use the 4 AWG crimp dies first, then I switched to the 6 AWG dies to get rid of the wings that formed on the particular lugs I had, simply to get them to slide into the connector easily. They will never come apart. If you are going to install an inverter with 2/0 or 4/0 wire lugs, you will need these anyways. That's why I originally bought them. Switching dies was never needed on any other lugs. One shot usually does make them come out perfectly hexagonal.

A footnote from another comment on loom size. The loom I used fits over both 4AWG wires together. Larger loom is not needed. It's just that 25' was not enough to do both sections for me. You can just order a longer piece if you don't care to have multiple colors. It would be cheaper that way.

[TucsonJim]

bellis

I missed that - and the have the larger ones available. Cost is excellent too

Jim - your putting the two DC-DC in the front bay of the trailer - correct? Are you going to run 2 separate sets of wiring off you battery through the relays to get power,? You could use a bigger relay and run one set of say 02 0r 04 to power both at the same time? Then you only need to use one up fitter switch. Just curious.?
Keith

Keith - On second thought, I already have the wiring in place in the fiver for a single run. So I'll just use one upfitter switch. On the old truck, I used 2 AWG to the Andersen connector, then 2 AWG back to buss bars. From the buss bars, I ran 6 AWG to the two DC to DC chargers.

Here's a photo of the DC to DC chargers as installed.



Jim